Do Looks Matter?

"A fair woman without discretion is as a gold ring in a swine's snout."

Don't go annoying the pig now!!

James, your closing statements are true. Self-esteem comes from the inside and is based on our actions. Yet there is that issue that looks matter and can be a deal maker or breaker in relationships (and let's face it, work). My own two cents about that: it has to do with urbanization.

In small communities, people knew each other based on family ties and social standing, so character and reputation were more important than looks. Of course, the downside might be you'd better be careful about that reputation because everyone will talk if you mess up.

So living in a city where nobody knows each other can be a great freedom. But it's an anonymous setting, so looks take on more importance as quick and easy "code" of identity. We've developed a lot of code to judge people by, like "thin=good, healthy" "blond=dumb" "style of dress=sexual orientation" "fat=bad, unhealthy" etc. in order to sort through and deal with the vast number of strangers we encounter in our daily lives. In a way, it makes sense, as the brain wants to impose order on so much random stimuli. But the downside is, you'd better be careful about how you present yourself physically because people make judgments based on that first impression.

And add Hollywood and the film industry into that mix, where careers are made or broken based on five pounds, gleefully reported by the entertainment media andd bloggers 24 hours a day and we've got ourselves a spiraling national obsession with looks.

Yes, looks do matter. When I was at my heaviest, I was going through a very stressful period of job-hunting. An employment consultant told me I'd improve my chances if I lost weight. It worked - after dropping a dress size I gained a better paid, more secure and more presitigious job.

Ninety pounds later, I noticed that people treat me *much* better now that I'm slim. This makes day-to-day interactions more pleasant and life a lot easier. But it was a hurtful realisation; I'm still exactly the same person. People really are that superficial.

Of course looks matter, but not as much as personality does.

Anyone who says they lost weight only for health is a liar.

I've lost over 30 kgs (70+ pounds) and LOVE the way I look now (on the lean side).

Nothing tastes as good as looking great feels! It's so true. I really pity the fatties out there these days.

Looks do matter and sometimes - unfortunately- more than personality: I read a study that concludes that tall people are more successful than short people because they look more serious, more competent and companies tend to hire them more easily than short people. and even, once in the company, they go up the ladder quicker because they impress more.

I've met many outwardly beautiful people that I couldn't wait to get away from. I prefer a twinkle. Some people just light up a room don't they? And they're not necessarily the outwardly beautiful ones.

I believe if you seek beauty in others you will ultimately judge yourself by those same standards.

I think looks matter but more to the extent that if you look like someone who takes care of him/herself, you look more competent, more together, than the person in the stained sweatsuit and messy hair. You are always afraid the person who looks like a mess will be depressed and tell you their problems and whine, as unfair as that may be, since they may be perfectly happy but just out of time that day.

Of course looks as in pretty, tall, thin, matter but not as much as general presentation does. I'm very short and I've never felt the workplace was stacked against me because of my height.

There is a phrase that even psychiatrists use: "Fake it 'till you make it." It applies to almost everything, looks, things you enjoy (like excerisize, studying, working, etc.) and that if you can keep on faking it, one day you will find yourself, surrounded by just enough success to stay motivated by your own steam. Looks matter. Self-esteem matters... and sometimes you can fake it 'till you make it fake it till you make if from the outside in... it's called taking baby steps.

Well sure looks matter - we're told and shown that every single solitary day in multiple different ways and from multiple different sources and whatever ideas we are exposed to with spaced repetition becomes our reality, our truth. But in cultures in the world where there are far more pressing things at stake (like survival) and where people may not have access to mirrors or the mass media - much less value is placed on how they look and much more is placed on oher attributes.

Personally, I think looks only take you so far.

A survey was done once asking women if they had to choose between gaining sixty pounds or losing a leg, which would they choose. The majority chose losing a leg. How sad is that?

Cherie.

Cherie, I saw a similar one where they could choose in theory between losing 10 pounds, or getting $10,000 tax-free and the vast majority chose to lose 10 pounds.

YES THEY DO!!!

They skinnier you are, "Not anorexic" the better despite the current push from the femanist movement to make skinny women unvouge.

Only in the mind of a few beasts of nature are skinny girls out. Really... Skinny girls look a lot better than, using the PC terminology, "Average American Women". You know what femanazi's label as average are really repugnant samples of the gene pull. Grant it.. there are some hefty girls that have a pretty smiles and good facial features but at the end of the day they still eclipse out a light source. It is a very disgusting thought to cuddle next to a voluptuous woman and being engulfed in her floppy skin tissue. Now, this doesn't mean that skinny women needs to be firm and grossly butch-like but just a pinch or two of soft silky skin to complement the fine figures that youth and genetics have blessed them with. A lady should look like a classical art work and not a modern blob of coloured paint.
Most of the women one sees vilifying skinny girls are themselves overweight, uncomely and bitter women. If these accursed women spent half the energy they use-up complaining about the current standard of beauty "as the media instills in the population", and focus it on a stair master than they too might enjoy the wondering eye of the male species.
In the end... do not be bitter because they are what you were or what you never can be... just find solace in the fact that some men dig fat girls or the voluptuous, self-deluding "Average American Woman".

Qiushan: let me guess, you are single, right?

Qiushan!
I believe your comment earns you a big check in the NOT NICE box on Santa's list!!

Qiushan said:
A lady should look like a classical art work and not a modern blob of coloured paint.[...]

Actually, if you bothered to go to a museum and look at paintings from the Renaissance to the 19th century, you'd know the women depicted in them are large and voluptuous, not skinny, and were regarded as the ideal. Like Rubens, Titian, Renoir. Modern art with its paint blobs doesn't even bother with representing the human figure. Only in the 20th century has skinniness been held up as an ideal.

Quishan--It's people like you that are responsible for lots of eating disorders among women. If "skinny women are better", then why doesn't that same standard apply to men? I'm SURE that since you are out there making derrogatory comments toward normal-sized women, you MUST be in perfect athletic form and have luxurious hair and perfect teeth and eyes that would melt any woman's heart. But, I'm guessing that you're probably a gross, fat, single man that WISHES he could get a piece of a skinny woman but who probably won't because you're too much of an a$$hole.

Correct me if I'm wrong

Spectra, yep. It is always the guys who look like George Costanza who are hypercritical of women. That is why I guessed he was single. It is never a guy who looks like Hugh Jackman that thinks that way.

I am looking for albumen powder and soy flakes for a low carb granola recipe. Does anyone have a web site that sells them or a local store close to Dayton, Ohio? I have searched everywhere! HELP!!!

If a woman has a good personality and cooks tasty food, I don't care what she looks like. As my fiancee once said about me: "the quickest way to his heart isn't his stomach; his heart IS his stomach".

Jan, I've never believed it myself, but people have called me handsome my whole life, and I'm definitely not critical of a woman's appearance, so there's another data point for you.

I'm 13 years old . and I'm 5'1 and 134 pounds . i asked my doctor if i was overweight and he said i wasn't because i'm a very active person I mean I play sports every single day . he said that it was all muscle . but all the other girls in my grade always seem to weigh less then me . they weigh 105 and 110 and i feel so big compared to them and I've cried over it . no one has actually ever called me fat but seeing how much of a weight difference it is i'm not so sure ... people have even guessed my weight before like when my dad had to put my weight for these softball trading cards i told him what i actually weighed and he was like "What?" you don't weigh that much and he put me as like 15 pounds lighter then I actually am .. someone please tell me whats up ?

oh and by the way i dont even think i look 134 pounds but i still feel so self conscious ..

To all those who got offended over my comments:

First, thank you for participating in my research… it has given me an authentic view of some of those who either seek to change the concept of beauty or are dealing with an overweight issue themselves.

Now:

Yes – the truth hurts, reality is bitter, fat is not in and to most it is hellishly grotesque. If you’re fat…learn to love it or loose weight but above all stop picking on skinny people and blaming the media for your low self-esteem and others lack of romantic interest in you. One poster said that she was a bigger woman and had a positive self esteem and held herself with confidence…perhaps many people should model her approach instead of the all-to-increasing American attitude of bucking responsibility and blaming someone else for their problems.

As for the poster who commented on women in classical art work…well…you must have an aptitude for pointing out the obvious and missing the big picture. Now, after you go back and reread what I wrote don’t blame yourself if the idea/concept fails to emerge….instead blame your education system for failing you…after all that is the new American way. (By the way the logic of your comment reminded me of the Monty Python skit where they were trying to determine if a lady was a witch)

As far as alluding to my looks as being on par with George Costanza and taking a conjecture that I am some fat single man and, oh….above all an a$$hole – good attempt at a personal attack but I’m not ferklempt over it. My looks are ugly to some and handsome to others but in the long run it doesn’t matter; who cares!. Really what matters is my self-image and not people’s opinion. My seed is sown, I have a good idea of who I am and I have a plan for the future ….Rhetorically what type of person bases their self-image on their appearance or something that is as fleeting the seasons…probably the same type of person who watches entertainment television and pays attention to the faux lives of so called “celebrities.” Hmmm… Hugh Jackman. (yes I did have to google that)

Now, my ranting is not with out a point. Through my opinions on beauty and some poster’s willingness to personally attack me for them, I believe we have come to a truth in this dialogue.

Thus being: if your self-image is suffering because the majority of people find skinnier people more attractive, then the problem is not with the majorities concept of beauty or the media’s reinforcement of that concept, the problem is with you. It is your immaturity of mind and lack of self understanding that is depressing you.

If you’re fatty, be a proud confident fat person. Just don’t expect the majority of people to find you attractive.

Don't be such a kvetch.

Sasha, you should not feel self-conscious. I'm your height and around your weight and your doctor is right, that is not fat. We always compare ourselves to others and come out short, but you know, they are doing the same thing, comparing themselves to others (and to us) and thinking we have it better than they do.

Also, keep in mind most everyone lies about their weight, so your friends who say they weigh 105 might weigh 120lb.

Qiushan, you should have googled "rhetorically" instead, so you wouldn't have misused the word. Also, I love that you contradicted yourself by saying that what matters is your self-image, not people's opinions, but you had said in your earlier post that average women thinking they were normal was "self-delusion". So it is ok for you to think you are handsome in spite of societal norm, but not ok for women who don't meet your beauty standards to think they are normal.

thanks . i guess that helps a little .

I have low self esteem...
And I have to say... my motivation for losing weight isn't health... I'm very healthy as is... and as long as I keep up eating healthy and working out, I'm sure it will stay that way-- in fact, the severe dieting to lose wieight is probably worse for my health.. It's appearance.
Though I do wonder if my self esteem will be much improved by the attempts

Jan..Jan..Jan..Jan

- if you want to pick on someone for their grammar or language usage then you really should know what your talking about and not have a elementary school understanding of it.

You're so silly!! I didn't need to google that word.. I have a pretty good understanding of its usage... for example if u ask a question...but do not sincerely want them to answer... It becomes a rhetorical question..

Please.. Go get u some learnin!

Also... Average American women.. they are self-deluded when it comes to the thought of their size.. if they think it is by any stretch of the imagination healthy!

You know Jan, I really question your ability to reason and comprehend the written word; at the minimum you’re definitely all furblungit. What I wrote was not a contradiction. One can be fat and still have a positive self image without deluding oneself into thinking they are healthy or normal....but again u must have speed read through what I wrote or read it with such emotional turmoil that the palpating feeling of your heart overwhelmed your minds ability to comprehend.

I have had enough toying with halfwits. I wash my hands of this dialogue since nobody can come back with any intelligent argument.

For those that are overweight you can either dwell in self-delusion by thinking that your normal, find a healthy way to improve yourself or just be a proud confident fat person. Just don’t expect the majority of people to find you attractive and above all don’t blame the media or population for appreciating the beauty of a skinny person. If your self-image is centered around your appearance that much than you have your life priorities confused.

Qiushan: Indeed, you did use "rhetorically" correctly. I had to read the sentence a few times though to recognize it. Granted, I spend my work day writing driver code for graphics chips, so English isn't exactly my specialty. However, if you use the word in such an unfamiliar way (as a pre-core adverbial), it confuses the mind to the point where you could say it might as well have been used incorrectly. Or, perhaps you do see it used that way a lot.

Anyways, can you please define an "Average American woman" for me. That phrase probably doesn't drum up the same image in my mind as it does in yours. If you can put a certain body fat percentage range on it, I can decide whether I should agree with you or not. I probably don't need to tell you that it's always important in an argument to carefully define your terms.

Dear Sasha,

You are obviously a smart, sensitive girl. It sounds like feeling heavier than your friends is really hard for you and that you may not have much support at home to talk about it. Is there someone in your family (or maybe a teacher, or your guidance counselor) who you are close to, with whom you can share more?

It is very normal for young women to have these kinds of feelings, so please don't believe that you are all alone in this. It's really good that you had the courage to post about it to all of us! Take good care of yourself.

Have a happy holiday & write again soon,

S.A.

Having just stumbled across this website and read a number of the postings, I feel the need to comment already. I don't understand why, in so many good forums like this, participants respond at length to individuals who put out provocative arguments designed to stir anger and controversy and then pull back into a "holier-than-thou" or attacking stance designed to create dissension and get everyone off track. This feeds into the needy and/or personality-disordered individual who made the post; he or she then controls the dialogue, at least until others get disgusted and walk away, so to speak.

In my opinion, we might feel sorry for people like this, but we mustn't give them more than the time of day, at least until they respect others and stop playing the bully.

Having said that, best wishes, happy holidays and good luck on your goals to everyone who visits here...and thanks for creating a really interesting forum for folks like me, who can always use the encouragement!

S.A.: No, the real point is that she's an athlete who is carrying a lot more muscle than the average, sedentary girl.

Sasha: If people consistently underestimate your weight, then you are probably doing just fine. I have the same problem/advantage. I have a high amount of muscle mass for my height. People tend to underestimate my weight by 25-40 pounds. Body fat percentage is a really good measure of how lean you look. Having more muscle lowers your body fat percentage. Also, muscle is around 1.1 grams per cubic centimeter, fat is 0.9, so you can be heavier but smaller. Don't worry about actual weight; it's a very bad measure.

Heather, as to whether your weight loss will improve your self-esteem, I think it can go either way. If you are actually overweight, it can make you feel better to not be overweight anymore. If you are not overweight for starters and are losing weight to try to more closely approximate the physical ideal of our times, odds are losing weight will make you frustrated, cause you'll then find other flaws, like "now my arms are thin enough, but my legs are still too big" or "if only I had nicer hair" or "if only I were taller". So it could in fact make your self-esteem lower.

I've been overweight most of my life, topping out at 220. Four years ago I lost 60 lbs and was muscular and a size 8 (down from an 18). I had really expected to feel happier with my life at the lower weight but it didn't change me - and I actually started to think I needed to lose more. Then I moved to the country, stopped exercising and began eating the wrong foods again. Now I'm 200 lbs. I've learned that I felt better when I was in shape and at a healthy weight. At my current weight I'm dealing with gastrointestinal issues, bending over to tie my shoes cuts off my oxygen and I breathe heavy for 5 minutes after running up the stairs! Now I get it, and - with the support of you bloggers - I plan to change my lifestyle and get back into shape through exercise and healthy eating, starting Jan 2 (my husband's going to shave off the moustache that I have never seen him without as incentive!). Wish me luck, and keep writing as I find you all intelligent, insightful and/or funny!

hi everyone, i am 31 years old and weigh my highest at 190lbs. i really want to lose the weight but each time i try i give up after a while.i find that by the second week of the diet i get very depressed. does that happen to anyone else. i want be fit and look good. i want to be around to watch my five children grow up. i want to be the outgoing happy person i was before i had the last three children and gained the weight. it would be nice to correspond with people who are going through the same thing and we could inspire each other. remember this: my setback was just my stepback for my comeback! happy new year when it comes. who could ask for a better time to change our lives.

i made a mistake in that saying.
my stepback
was just my stepback
before my comeback
get it, means we are coming back stronger then before. whatever we have been through couldnt hold us down

I once made the mistake of thinking that weight loss would make me happy. I then lost 60 lbs and realized that happiness is a state of mind that I control and it has nothing to do with money, looks or falling in love. I heard a great quote about happiness: it's when what you say, what you feel and what you do are all in synch. That works for me and I am a very happy 200 lb woman. Melanie, if your diet leaves you depressed after a couple of weeks, you may need to change your diet, or talk to a counsellor. Obviously emotions can get away from us if we diet hard for 2 weeks and then think about how far we have yet to go and how much we hate the way we're eating. That's why I think we shouldn't diet too strictly. Cut out the junk, take more time with food prep, organize a support group (this blog site is my choice for the diet I'll be starting next week) and - contrary to what I just said - don't call it a diet. Call it a lifestyle change and know that you must eat better foods, smaller portions and get more exercise for the rest of your life, instead of suffering for a couple of months, only to go back to the bad habits and regain all the lost weight as soon as you finish the diet.

Personalty > Looks, but by having or changing your looks you can improve your personality because you are more secure now.

"Beauty is only skin deep, buy ugly goes clear to the bone." Flippant and twisted, but somehow sadly accurate.

Hi Everyone,

I'm 5'4 and 112 lb and 13. I know I'm my normal size. I still think I'm fat. Because when I see my other slim friends it's like, YOu suck. They don't have to worry about their buts sticking out. And I always have to make sure mine isn't. Or maybe it's just my stupid mind. Everyone says I'm not fat. But it stabs in the back when I see my friends being adored by everyone. No one adores me. I just feels so ugly and fat when I compare myself to others. I've been excercising for 2 months. This month I've been trying a lot though to get at 105. Thinking that just maybe my cheeks will be thinner and some boy will have a crush on me. Is that wrong to think? My big sis is the popular one in everything except p.e.. Everyone adores her because she get's straight A's and she's pretty with her hazel eyes and she wears makeup every SINGLE day and dresses up. I dress up too but I don't wear makeup and those clothing that outline your breasts. My sis is 5'2 and 20 years old, she's average too. My sis actually has the looks and I don't. I think I'm too plain. One time she even called me fat. She 's the only one that's ever (seriously) called me fat except my big bro(jokingly). I excercise atleast 3 times a week for 60 minutes. I eat a healthy diet and only eat junk food once a week ,but not like crazy. My mom and dad are both over weight so i have more of a chance of becoming overweight. But i'm average. SO WHY AM I THINKING I'M FAT? Sometimes I wonder if people compare themselves to me like I do to them.

Thnx, Sarah