Boy Scouts: Discrimination Against the Obese?
The Boy Scouts have had their share of criticism over the years (relating to homosexuality and religious beliefs). We can now add the overweight to the list of people the Boy Scouts have rankled.
A policy comes into effect in January, which will require both children and adults to meet height and weight standards for "high adventure" or extreme events, such as a 15-mile trek. Here is the chart that outlines the allowable weights for the various heights.
Discrimination or Sensible Precautions?
It is easy to see how this new policy would draw the ire of many - particularly those who have been involved with Boy Scout leadership for some time such as Larry Armstrong - a long-time Tennessee-based volunteer. Armstrong, at 6-foot, 2-inches tall and about 370 pounds, may no longer qualify for some scout outings because he's overweight.
"It looks like they're trying to get the perfect person, and that's not going to happen" - Larry Armstrong.
While I can understand feeling jilted, I think Armstrong's comments are a tad absurd. Somehow, many people equate such policies (whether legitimate or not - I'll get to that in a minute) with some sort of pursuit of "perfection". It's like no other middle ground exists.
The idea of such a policy is in my mind a sound concept with some shortfalls. Here are 2 central issues with such policies;
Weight vs. Body Fat: Most of us are aware of the limitations of height/weight charts (Body Mass Index). It doesn't take into account body composition and can unfairly categorize someone who is actually athletic and/or muscular.
Overweight vs. Unfit: Another sticking point to this sort of policy is the assumption that all overweight people are automatically on deaths doorstep. There are people out there who are quite heavy but still very active and healthy.
The Bright Side
Part of me believes that instead of railing against the Boy Scouts and their policy, perhaps this could be the impetus many overweight people need to change their lives for the better. In my mind, this is the best way for them to "fight back".
On a final note, this policy is likely a precautionary measure to avert lawsuits. Perhaps those who exceed the weight limits can sign a special waiver? Just a thought.
Source: ABC News
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As long as some rule Nazi is not in charge of making final decisions - it is a sensible ideal. I met a US Marine on the beach the other day. He just enlisted a year ago at the age of 30 something. At first he did not qualify because he was too fat. He lost 70 pounds in 4 months, re-enlisted and got accepted.
ReplyI sure hope people don't believe the Marines discriminate against fat people.
It's common sense.
When you go hiking at Philmont, at 8,000 feet elevation and strap on a 60 pound pack, you'd better be in good shape because there is one way up and one way down and it's not by automobile.
Part of the Scout Oath declares that a Scout be "physically fit," so that's another reason.
It's a safety issue. We can't have Scouts gasping for air or becoming overheated while hiking 20 or so miles a day at a high elevation.
We are not trying to make super athletes. We just want the Scout to have the best chance of having a successful outing without endangering his health.
Also, it seems like most of the people who like to point out "Boy Scouts are discriminating" are not affiliated with Scouts. The boys and parents who are registered Scouters understand why these weight requirements are set.
This is only for the high adventure activities. Anyone can join regardless of weight. But if you want to participate in the high adventure activities, you need to be in shape. I don't think this is asking too much when you consider so many kids are sitting indoors playing video games in the air condtioning.
ReplyWell her's what I find sad about it.
Girls as young as 10 express dissatisfaction with their stomach, thighs and body weight and agree with statements like: “Pictures of thin girls and women make me wish I were thin” and “I wish I looked like a magazine model.”
But girls who took part in Girl scouts were significantly more likely than their peers to agree with the statement “I do not want to look like models in magazines.” Where emphasis on self-esteem is based on encouraging the valueing of attributes and skills instead of appearance, such as amongst girl scouts its protective against body dissatisfaction. (Women’s Weekly, 22.3.2001 pg 13. Girls can internatlize negative body images even as pre-adolescents)
Secondly, shouldn't we be applauding the overweight when they do get out and exercise??? By banning them from activities, aren't we contributing to the problems?
ReplyThat's very sad. Those models in magazines look good. The girl scouts is brainwashing these girls into not wanting to look good.
As if there's some huge downside to looking good.
ReplyI want to hear you say this when you see the models without makeup & without the airbrushing! Have you seen any of the shows "stars without makeup". Models in mags can fall into the same group.. not all but a lot of them.. AND, many are way too thin. Sorry. I disagree with you & I hope your was a joke. Try being a women with all these pressures of looks!
ReplyAgreed, there's a big difference between the final product and what a person looks like just as themselves. Non-airbrushed protruding bones are not attractive.
ReplySo models without makeup look worse that average people without makeup? No. There's no way.
And anyway, the girl scouts have been taught not to want to look like the models in magazines. In magazines, they wear makeup and look good. No one asked the girl scouts whether they want to look like people who just got out of bed after a late night drinking. So saying "the models don't really look that good" is beside the point.
It costs nothing to "want" or to aspire to look good. It's very sad that they've been taught not even to "want" to look good. Next we'll hear that they've been taught not to "want" to be extremely kind or extremely wise or extremely intelligent or wealthy or athletic or compassionate.
Girl scouts: just be mediocre. It's easier for us and we'll feel better about ourselves by comparison.
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ReplyWhere did you get that girl scouts don't want to look good! You are over generalizing & I never said that. You view seems pretty sexist. Stand in a girls or woman's shoes & see how all the pressure feels. Men can look like crap & still get anchor jobs & more. Women have to go above & beyond. Many women try to look better but often it is never enough. Hate to tell you, good looks is not everything & plenty of decent although not considered "pretty" people out there with lots to offer. Maybe you should open your eyes & stop focusing so much on looks. That is what cause women to have eating disorders & more. The pressure of never being enough per the TV, magazines & more!
Also, "you hope I was joking"?
What has the world come to when it's wrong to want to look good? When did our society get this collective mental illness?
Every society in human history (and before) has valued good looks. But I guess everyone in history was wrong. I guess all the modern African and Asian and Latin American cultures (and everyone else who hasn't been taught to rebel against their own essential humanity) are all wrong.
ReplyThere's nothing wrong with wanting to look good, but the average fashion model will not look good without copious amounts of makeup and airbrushing. Most of them are far too thin, which tends to come with skin problems, hair problems, enormous circles under their eyes, etc.
ReplySee above. That's beside the point. Wanting to look good has nothing to do with not looking good. Wanting to look good has nothing to do with whether it's "realistic". All "wanting" requires is aspiration. And the poor girl scouts listened to the people who told them they shouldn't aspire to that. It's sad.
ReplyDon't feed the trolls. ;)
Replythis has nothing to do with airbrushing or models. This is about being FIT. I am a parent of a son in the BSA and the are the guidelines adopted by WHO. For my height of 5'9" my max weight cant exceed 225 lbs. 225 POUNDS has nothing to do with airbrushed models or 10 year old girls. It has everything to do with hypertension, diabetes, back pain, heart problems, etc. I think this is great that they are making make a choice.... be within the limits and participate OR choose to be unhealthy in more than one sense. There are those who can say they are "healthy" and 250+ pounds, I say they are getting by. They are in essences ticking time bombs! I have chosen to drop the weight and live healthy, for my sons sake. He sees me eat poorly and not exercise. I love him enough to not want him to follow in my bad decision footsteps. IMO
ReplyOk, reading over the weight chart and doing a little math shows that recommended weight tops out at a BMI of 26.5. The allowable exception tops out at a BMI of 31 or so. So, it is possible to meet the medical criteria for obesity and still get in just not too obese. Why this cutoff, I don't know. It does not seem unreasonable to me that an organization that often centers on physical activity might use weight as a cutoff for participation. There is no reason that an entire troop of scouts should be bogged down on a hike because of their own personal "Private Pyle."
Reply(Admittedly I am female, so I have no direct experience with the Boy Scouts.) From what I understand, many Boy Scout activities are quite physical in nature. It would seem that if you are trying to have a person who is so over-fat (as opposed to merely overweight) try to come along, it would hinder the entire group. That said, I think it would be more significant to put together sorts of smaller test events to see if a person would be able to handle a larger event, regardless of weight. So, for example, send people on a 3 to 5 mile hike, and if you can't make that or are sufficiently incapacitated by the end of it, you might not be cut out for an organization that would take you on a 15 to 20 mile hike.
ReplyKatie,
I agree with your points. Not only would someone unfit for the activity hinder the entire group, but could potentially create a dangerous situation.
Height and weight charts can be a guide, but should not be the only standard. There should be other fitness tests as appeal process. Showing initiatives towards better health and passing physical fitness tests can give a kid, who may be struggling with his weight, the incentive needed to improve health.
Part of what the Scouts is all about right?
Reply"Part of me believes that instead of railing against the Boy Scouts and their policy, perhaps this could be the impetus many overweight people need to change their lives for the better. In my mind, this is the best way for them to 'fight back'".
Really? This is your idea of fighting back?
It's more like falling in line, doing what you're told, and bending yourself to fit into someone else's idea of the "right" mold.
Fighting back would be flipping the boy scouts the proverbial bird and starting your own association for fat kids. No skinnies allowed.
ReplyThere's no reason to "fight back" against the idea of being healthy.
Fat kids need someone to help them to become healthy. I was a fat kid. No one helped me. I had to continue being fat until I grew up and found my own way to lose weight and keep it off.
My life would have been a lot better if the people responsible for me wouldn't have neglected my health when I was a kid. I wish the adults had been more responsible.
ReplyI do think we have to consider the make up of the pounds. Because of my muscle, the charts say my body fat is way higher than what it really is and yes, there can be people that are heavier but healthy. I understand the "legal" implications of this but why not just provide health info as part of the boy scouts meetings or something like that. Provide positive feedback on how to lose weight & be healthy the right way.
ReplyI'm sure this is strictly a safety issue: safety for the participants in extreme physical outdoor adventures. I wouldn't read anything nefarious into it.
Those who don't make the cut this year have a goal to shoot for next year.
ReplyUh...this guy isn't being disqualified for these trips because he is overweight--this guy is morbidly, morbidly obese. I don't buy much into the whole BMI system, especially for men, but this man's BMI comes out to 47.5. That is pretty serious, and I doubt any doctor is going to okay him for a 15-mile trek, especially with a group of young boys he is responsible for supervising. I don't believe this is a discriminatory move. This is a safety issue.
ReplyMy boyfriend just finished with getting his Eagle in Boyscouts. During his pursuit of his new level, he had to go through many of these little excursions. They were difficult for him and one of the younger troop members (who is clearly obese) had an asthma attack that was so taxing they had to have the scout's parents come and drive up to fetch him. The ordeal threw their entire trip off of their schedule. If you actually look at the chart the "unacceptable" weight would be considered much too high- a person with that weight would not be that heavy just from muscle mass- unless they were on the 'roids... which is also not recomended in their little Handbook.
ReplyI am 6"2' and weight 360 pounds and I COMPLETELY AGREE with this rule. Not only are folks my size going to slow down the group, but more serious is the medical risk to myself and others around me take me on a mountain hike or anything strenuous until I get my fat backside in shape.
ReplyIt does seem like it's a liability thing. But I wonder one about the body fat vs overweight, and the fitness thing.
I was running marathons (26.2 miles) while overweight, no problem. Not sure where the line is they drew but I wasn't the biggest out there so it seems an arbitrary line.
A preliminary fitness test would make more sense. Like, you have to be able to do 15 pushups and run a mile in under 10 minutes or something; you get the point.
ReplyOn the other hand, my 6'4 345 lb husband can easily hike 15 miles at probably a faster pace then most kids would want to.
ReplyMy son is a Boy Scout. I am an OVERWEIGHT non exercising mom. At 1st I was up set, but now I realized this is just the "kick in the butt" i needed to get motivated. I have started eating better (portion control) and excersizing daily and in 3 weeks I am now down 13 lbs! I am thrilled for myself. I did not realized how depressed I had become over how i look and feel until this happened. There was no way in hell I could look my 11 year olds eyes and say, "sorry, mommy is too fat to go on outings with you"!! I thank God every day for this limit. I am now off of my blood pressure medicine for the 1st time in 3 years! yeah for me, and the thought of diabetes is no longer a worry for me. I can't wait to keep up my new found motivation and to be around and healthy for my son and grandchildren. I am thankful for the BSA for this. It makes me accoutable for my bad choices, and to do something about it! NO MORE EXCUSES FOR ME!!!!
ReplyWhat a great story - thanks so much for coming on and sharing! This is very inspirational and I wish you all the best in your continued health and fat loss goals!
ReplyIt's not discrimination, it's common sense.
I'll refer you to this article, which as it happens was written in response to one of your earlier posts:
http://bravelittlememe.com/post/105019855/friday-rant-your-fat-ass-is-not-a-civil-rights-issue
ReplyI have never been a fan of the Boy Scouts but, like other physically active groups they have never made a secret of the difficulties that one may encounter while participating in their many rugged wilderness adventures. Unfortunately, I have a friend who is a Boy Scout leader who herself is in poor physical condition. She herself has ruined trips for members of her own troop by insisting on participating in hiking trips that she clearly is not physically capable of completing. Including forcing the leader to leave several of the boys behind to bring her safely down the mountain. This is both unfair to the boys and clearly dangerous! Parents and adults need to understand the difficulty involved and be properly prepared. If your child has physical limitations then you should be respectful enough of the group to participate as well. If your child encounters difficulties you deal with their problem and allow the rest of the group to continue their trip. It is not fair to the boys or the other adults when someone makes a decision out of selfishness. In fact many times it outright dangerous!
ReplyI think it is great. But...the standards also need to come with education. I am a certified athletic trainer, personal trainer, and a nutrition specialist. I know the BMI is not the best standard to us for "perfection", but what people don't realize what BMI does communicate is a higher risk for disease. That is how the research was done. My BMI is right on the border between normal and overweight. Does that sending me flying off the handle? no...it makes me realize that I could be much healthier and more fit than I am. That doesn't mean I am striving to be on the cover of a magazine...it just means that I know I can have a higher quality of life if I improve my health. Our society in general has become heavier (obese or not). I think we all feel that bigger is normal now and that may be true. BUT normal doesn't mean healthy. My husband is an eagle scout and he would agree with me when saying that the boy scouts (and girls scouts) represent a balance life and health. I think it is great that a organziation with strong history and leadership is stepping up to the plate and making a health standard. Whether you like it or not, we are going to see more and more organziations, companies, and insurance companies moving in this direction. So rather than gripping and complaining...lets all just get moving and be healthy!
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