Vegetarian vs Vegan vs Raw: Which is Best?

Veganism and raw foodism is a bit over the top, in my opinion.

I have a friend who is Buddhist vegetarian -- she drinks milk, but doesn't eat eggs. Which I find alright, since milk is unavoidable in our lives.

Once in a blue moon, I try various "mock meats" -- fake lobster, duck, chicken feet, pork skin, kebabs, dried squid, v.v... I don't think vegetarianism is bad, just that I find it safer for an adult to practise rather than a child.

I have seen vegetarians that don't eat enough vegetables. Yes you can suck back a V8, but that leaves room for pop tarts and packaged snacks. Its like having a multivitamin for dinner and going right to the dessert table.

The best feature of vegetables is not what they are, but what they are not; high calorie and low nutrient junk food.

I've been a vegetarian for years now, for a wide variety of reasons. My husband is also a vegetarian, though I'd wager all but one or two of our friends are meat eaters. We're adventurous eaters when we have the time to experiment, and we've tried all manner of vegetables and recipes we never would have contemplated when we had meat to fall back on. We're both careful about getting yearly check-ups, and we've both been declared as healthy as can be by our doctor.

There is some faux meat in our diet, but most of the time what we eat is just stuff omnivores would be happy to order in a restaurant. My dad used to think vegetarianism was totally out there, until high cholesterol forced him to eat more veggies and I pointed out that he ate plenty of vegetarian meals each week without even thinking about it!

Great post!
I liked the point about being careful with raw food diets, especially with regards to children. Raw honey can cause botulism in small children.

I think there is a distinction to be drawn here between 'can be perfectly healthy' and 'is optimal'. I have much respect for people who, for moral reasons, seek to avoid animal products and although a meat-eater myself, I make every effort to do so ethically.

However, whilst it is possible to follow a vegan or vegetarian diet in a way that carefully ensures the correct balance of nutrition, that is not the same as it being the best diet for humans. I would argue that eating fish and meat is too fundamental a part of our evolutionary past for it not to be a more optimal way to eat.

@Methuselah
I think eating meat can be a part of a healthy diet but only if you do it right. Most people eat too much meat and especially too much processed meat. If you focus on lean, organic meat and limit your intake of it, you're perfectly fine.

That's what I do. I am mostly (99%) vegetarian, but I will occasionally eat some fresh fish or a piece of free range chicken. It's better for me, better for my wallet and better for the world around me.

Gal

I don't eat a lot of meat or animal products, but I do eat eggs and some dairy. I think there are healthy vegetarian diets and unhealthy vegetarian diets, just like with any food plan, you'll be able to find junk to eat that fits in with the guidelines. I know vegetarians who eat a very plant-based diet and others who live on mac and cheese.

I think classifying people who eat 60% raw food or more as raw foodists is a little too generous...on a regular basis, I only cook probably about 20% of what I eat yet I wouldn't classify myself as a raw foodist.

I think we have to acknowledge that different people have different "diets" they are on for religious or other reasons.
With the vegetarian and vegan diets i think it is important to keep an eye on the supply of nutrients like iron in mind. I use Iron as an example that easily comes to mind, just the noticable number of vegans with iron deficency. Often only borderline

I consider myself vegetarian, I do not eat meat, eggs occasionally if im at a restaurant (usually just egg substitute if at all), and cheese here and there.
Everything in moderation is my thing.
I do follow some more 'vegan' practices - such as not eating gelatin, rennet, etc..and not purchasing leather/fur.
Generally for protein I eat soy "fake meat", beans, and when I feel like my body needs it [low on energy - getting sick easily] and the soy isn't doing it for me - I may eat a bit of fish (mostly shellfish)...too me its much healthier than other meats, and fish are not put through the same kind of treatment as cattle, pigs, and chicken are. And to be quite blunt - I dont feel as bad eating fish: they dont feel pain to the same degree, they dont feel for their families the same way, and their brains and memories aren't as developed and complex.
Some people may disagree, some call it hypocritical...but all "vegetarian/vegans" have their own set of beliefs.

All in all - If I believe its more healthy and morally right, I'm obviously going to do it.
Everyone has the right to choose their own lifestyle and what they wish to put in their bodies and why.

I am a vegeterian and have milk and eggs like many people do in India. Under the reasons for being a vegeterian one reason that was missed was 'religious reasons'. Being born a Hindu I am a vegeterian by birth. Being a cardiac patient I am a vegeterian by choice too. Indian diets have a whole lot of vegeterian options. Western diets are built around the meat as the main ingredient. When I travel abroad, the problem of food is acute since most places will have a vegeterian choice of one dish. But still it has changed over the years and at least now, folks know what is vegeterianism.

P. Venkatraman

Thank you for the article!

I've been vegan since the end of 1997. The more plant-based my diet the more the health benefits I've had. I've now been a raw foodist since 12/00. I no longer get migraines and have no need for the prescriptions I used to take. I no longer have high blood pressure, which started in my 20's. No more meds for that either. It is rare for me to get any cold or flue symptoms. If/when I do, they are very mild and short-lived. When I stick to raw living plant-based foods I get no flu symtoms. While most main stream doctors and nutritionists may not suggest the diet, the experiences from those following the raw food diet overwhelmingly show benefits to the diet.

JR
Seattle, WA

NONE... diets don't work in the long run, a BALANCED eating life style DOES!

Plus being a vegan will rob you of so many vitamins and minerals that you will have to supplement with.

I say stop jumping from one extreme to another, and find some balance in your foods. You'll be better off in the long run.

Sahil M
flawlessfitnessbook.com

I have been a vegan for over 2 and a half years. I went vegan for moral reasons, but I cannot tell you how much more energy from when I was vegetarian and when I was an omni. I can tell by how I feel if I accidently got something I wouldn't normally eat. I am interested in trying a raw food diet, but am intimidated by it, so for right now, I will stick to just being a vegan.

I agree that it is possible to eat a vegan diet and not be healthy...after all coke and most (unflavored) chips are vegan. So are oreos.

And Kym- I would have agreed with you about the vegan diet being too "over the top" just about three years ago. But the more research I did, the more it made sense.

There are many paths to the top of the mountain. If yours got you there, that's great! Really though, if you have to make statements that are false to support your dogma, you are falling off the other side.

Thanks for sharing this post! Very helpful! :D

It is so frustrating to hear the uneducated comments from so many people. I have been a vegan for a couple of years now, but is was a slow process and a very big learning experience. I hope if someone decides to change their diet so drastically, they too will be smart about it. I am very aware of the unhealthy vegetarians and the extreme vegans, but there is a healthy way to a plant-based diet.

As for milk or dairy products in general, we do not need them to survive. Everything you mentioned can be found in leafy greens as well as legumes without all of the added hormones.

I don't like vegetarians. They think they're morally superior. Here's a secret: Whenever I meet a new vegetarian, see a PETA ad, or otherwise hear vegetarians preach about their lifestyle, you know what I do? I buy and eat veal or rabbit. I wasn't planning on it, but your preaching causes me to do it out of principle. Not just me, but I'll invite a couple of friends over to eat a feast. I'm sure I'm not alone in this habit. Just wondering if vegetarians knew that they're preachiness actually causes more yummy animals to be eaten.

Great site, really good information to

There is some good information on top diets that work that can be found at http://www.squidoo.com/topdietsthatwork worth a look ;)

I consume meat with PRIDE. Raw. Cooked. Whatever. I enjoy a life full of vim, vigor and vitality.

See those pointy things in your mouth? They're called canine teeth. They're there to help you tear meat.

If you accept the premise of biological evolution and yet you believe that it's not "moral" to eat meat, that's fine but your belief is totally irrational.

Thank you all for your comments and educating us all about healthy choices and options. I have been a pseudo-vegetarian" for years but I continued to eat fish, and fowl. ALthough I had a problem with the consumption I continued out of convenience.
After reading Kathy Freston's "Quantum Wellness" and completing the 21-day challenge, I decided to become a vegan and I feel terrific. Although I must admit that I need to make some changes so that I am eating less processed foods, I am grateful for the changes and I look forward to loosing weight.
It's all about having a choice and every one has one. So if you are comfortable eating meat, or following a vegan or raw food diet, it's your choice and no one can take that away from you.
Thanks again to everyone for sharing.
ORV

Milk Discussion:

Much of the food industry has employed propaganda to increase their revenue dollars. The wine industry states that it is good for you due to the antioxidants contained within the grapes. This is true; however there are many, many other great sources of antioxidants that do the body just as good such as what's contained within organic: strawberries, raspberries, 100% dark chocolate, pineapple, etc.

The dairy and meat industries do the exact same thing. They say their meat is lean so that makes it good. They say to eat and/or drink pasteurized, low fat dairy products because that is healthy. That cannot be further from the proven truth.

First of all full-fat dairy is best due to the good fat that it provides. Secondly pasteurization is highly outdated. 150 years ago when pasteurization was discovered beneficial was due to the very unclean farming and dairy extraction practices. The milk would sit in pales that collected bacteria under various conditions. Louie Pasteur discovered by heating the milk to about 161 degrees Fahrenheit for about 15-20 seconds would kill most of the potentially harmful bacteria. It does this and it does this well; however in the process it also kills the good and friendly bacteria, vital other micronutrients such as enzymes and vitamins/minerals.

It is a fact that people are only “lactose intolerant” to pasteurized milk- not unpasteurized (aka raw) milk. That applies to most dairy allergies as well. This is due to all the digestive enzymes being intact. Pasteurization also destroys some of the milk protein as well as diminishes the amount of absorbable calcium to about 10%. This is why the dairy industry must synthetically saturate their milk with Vitamin D. This assists in the absorption of whatever calcium is left intact. If they simply left the milk in its raw state there would never be a need to do this. Modern dairy and farming practices are quite safe and very clean. Most dairies, whether producing raw or not, extract the milk from the cows in the exact same ways. The only difference is the pasteurizing of the milk or not.

Another fact is that pasteurized milk is dead. That is why it rots, spoils, and becomes rancid. Raw milk never spoils. In fact if left out on the table for length it would simply curdle and turn into cheese. That is how cheese is made. A culture is added to milk and then it is left to age for a specific amount of time. Raw milk is one of the absolute healthiest drinks one can intake.

The following was taken from the Mercola.com website.

You don’t hear about this anymore, but in the early 1900’s milk was actually used as medicine. Dr. J.R. Crewe’s “Milk Cure” (aka Raw Milk Cure) was used at the Mayo clinic to successfully treat:
• cancer
• weight loss
• kidney disease
• allergies
• skin problems
• urinary tract and prostate problems
• chronic fatigue, and a whole host of other chronic conditions
Naturally, the only milk available at the time was raw whole milk, rich in butterfat, from pasture fed cows.

Dr. Crewe, MD -- one of the founders of the Mayo Foundation -- published an article in Certified Milk Magazine (January 1929), describing the milk treatment as a combination of “detoxifying fast and nutrient dense feeding,” and how diseases that have no similarity improved rapidly on raw milk.

Dr. Crewe used the milk cure for 15 years, and his patients were wild about it because it worked, and required no additional drugs or other medical interventions. Unfortunately his fellow medical practitioners were not as enthusiastic. Many physicians agreed on the fitness of dairy products as food, but were not interested in using it as a sole means of treatment. [They made their money from the pharmaceutical companies. Surprise, surprise as there wasn’t much money in for them as dairy farmers.]
Said Crewe in his article, “The chief fault of the treatment is that it is too simple… and it does not appeal to the modern medical man.”

This despite the fact that striking results were seen in tuberculosis, diseases of the nervous system, cardiovascular and renal conditions. Anemia and pernicious anemia responded well to it, as well as toxic thyroid and chronic cough.

“Hypertension responds with equal gratification. The blood pressure improves rapidly,” wrote Crew. “I have never seen such rapid and lasting results by any other method.”

Dr. Crewe, as a result of his experiences with food as medicine, became convinced that much of modern disease is due to an increasing departure from the simple preparation of plain nutrient-rich foods.
I wholeheartedly agree.

He continues, “The treatment of various diseases over a period of 18 years with a practically exclusive milk diet has convinced me personally that the most important single factor in the cause of disease, and in the resistance to disease, is food. I have seen so many instances of the rapid and marked response to this form of treatment that nothing could make me believe this is not so.”

Folks, when you look at the diets of indigenous cultures displaying robust health across the globe, regardless of whether their diet consists of mostly fruits, vegetables and dairy, or meats and fish, the common denominator is always that their diet is mainly eaten raw.

Stray too far from a raw, naturally-grown diet and you’re bound to encounter health complications. And pasteurized milk is definitely FAR from its original, nutrient-dense state.

I have never Felt better or looked better or younger in my life since i became vegan(when i was 29, going on year 4). It is not impossible to Avoid Milk, in fact its quite easy! I never feel hungry, rarely get sick, and eat a variety of delicious, healthy foods. There is so much out there in this world for you to eat besides meat and animal products, people need to quit fronting!

Feeding a raw foodist: I am for health/food allergy reasons. When I'm visiting "normal diet friends", I prefer "going shopping with them and getting what I can eat". However, if that isn't possible, or you'd just like to have food ready, think about calorie count - raw fruits and veggies have less in them, so to get a "normal calorie" meal, you are looking at a LOT of fruits and veggies (not just a couple apples, some iceberg lettuce, and a carrot), with a little bit of nuts, seeds, avocado. If the person has been raw for quite a while, they will likely consume less calories as their bodies are used to getting nutrition, but if the person is new to raw foods (

under 2 months), you'll need an equivalent calorie count. Ask your friend. Plan an assortment of edible fruits and veggies (ripe, not too old, with real greens like kale, spinach, collard), and a handful of raw nuts (unroasted, unsalted, un-oiled), or an avocado. If you don't know how to pick fruits/veggies, ask a fellow shopper or the staff. This is not meant to be insulting, but if you don't buy them normally, you may not know how to pick them.

I have been vegetarian and mostly vegan with a high pfor about 14 years and have been eating a high percentage of raw foods for about the last 3 years. I occasionally include some cheese or raw milk if I can find it but do not drink pastuerized milk or use other dairy products. I've heard about benefits of drinking raw milk and the only drawbacks I seem to hear about are the possiblility of getting sick from bacteris in the milk. Does anyone know of any scientific studies documenting the benefits of raw milk? Or any studies documenting risks not associated with bacteria caused illness?

okay. so i've been a vegetarian for 3 years, a vegan for 8 months, and a fruitarian for 2 days(; i really dont think vegans are over the top. it's way healthy but you have to make sure you are getting all the vitamins you need. the only problem with being a fruitarian is all the acid is burning my tongue. but i love being vegan and i am going to be one for the rest of my life. so who ever said a vegan or raw foodist is over the top is on crack.

(I added more to this post ... not sure of the earlier one posted, so I've repeated it) ....

If I use milk, I use cow's or goat's milk. Beware soy milk!!!! Soy that has not been fermented turns men into monks (that's what they eat to lower their "drive") and can cause abortion in pregnant women! An Indian coworker of mine, heavily ingesting soy, lost her first child at 5 months gestation (incompetent cervix, and she'd had no surgeries down there). She was so devastated, she left and moved back to India, taking a huge hit on her new house and new car (she and her husband work for our Indian branch now, and they make a lot less than we do).

Soy, like corn and peanuts, is one more mass-produced fad you have to be careful to keep in moderation. The mother of my 3 egg donor daughters finally took my advice, and took them off soy milk, when one of them started growing armpit hair at age 8! Another side effect of unfermented soy ingestion is early puberty ... not good for these girls, as one was born preemie, and the other two were twins!

I grew up on meat, cooked and garden veggies, and cow's milk, and I didn't undergo puberty until 14. I was a runner and skier, and didn't drink coffee or overdue the caffeine drinks, so I was the DEAD LAST girl in my grade to reach puberty. There were only 40 girls in my class of 74, and we all could see the boxes of pads in the top shelf of our gym lockers. Funny, because our health booklets said that we were supposed to "become women" between 14 and 16. I was the only one who fit the norm. Most were set to go at 10, 11, and 12!

As for disease being all non-raw food related, I beg to differ. Today in the US you can get away with eating raw, but in many cultures, fresh veggies (and meats) are contaminated and will kill small children and the elderly, unless cooked. Two of my great grandmothers lived to 92 and 96, and both ate a lot of cooked veggies, meat, & dairy. The key was that they EXERCISED and STAYED ACTIVE, even late in life. They had a night cap before bedtime (1 oz of alcohol is good for you), and they never overdid caffeine, cigarettes, sweets, or alcohol. In my family, if you want to die young, and/or go senile early, sit on your butt, drink too much alcohol, and smoke cigarettes. It's been a pretty consistent predictor.

The vegetarians in my life have tended to have funny breath, a lack of muscle, and a lack of energy. It's a lot more effort for them to be as active and healthy as me. I can outlift them, outhike them, outride them, and outlast them, and believe me, we've gone hiking, etc. to find out. And don't get me going about the bedroom. My sensitivity and repeatability blow them away :). Being a vegetarian didn't keep my friend from ovarian, and later, thyroid cancer. She's beaten it both times, but it got in the way of her being another egg donor recipient of mine.

Exercise outside, drink lots of uncontaminated (but still with minerals!) water, eat/do everything in moderation, and don't hold your frustration in ... do something about it. Plan ahead for what you stuff into your mouth, and where you are headed, and nothing will truly catch you off guard. Get there fast, so you can take it slow, with a fast return to a slower heart rate :). It's that simple. I don't do anything special, and I'm over 40 with low blood pressure, pulse, cholesterol (high in the right one), etc. I can lift colleagues off the ground who are almost double my weight, and if I'm in sock feet and on a smooth floor, I can carry them across it. And I don't work out on any weight bench. I keep horses at home and work as an engineer.