SubscribeToo Fat to Emigrate
Welsh woman Rowan Trezise has been denied a visa into New Zealand because she is too heavy. Her husband has already emigrated - after being recruited for a job in the country.
His employer-backed skills visa was initially rejected by immigration officials when they discovered that his body mass index, or BMI, was 42, making him morbidly obese under New Zealand regulations. (via)
A search through the NZ immigration website shows that potential migrants must be an "acceptable standard of health" - which means they must be "unlikely to be a danger to public health, and unlikely to be a burden on New Zealand health services."
Exactly what BMI level constitutes a "burden" remains unclear.
In the case above, Mr Richie Trezise had to lose pounds before he could emigrate. His original BMI was 42 (morbidly obese).
These issues will continue to be debated as the potential health costs of obesity are examined.
More like this in Big Business · Nov 20, 2007
That kinda makes sense... You don't just have a "right" to emigrate where ever.
ReplyYes, but are they testing people for any other traits that could be a burden on the health system, that aren't visible to the naked eye? I think this is another unfortunately case of subjective discrimination. There's no doubt that someone with a BMI of 42 will need health care; but so do plenty of people with health issues that aren't apparent on the surface.
Replyi understand the health risk, but obesity isn't contageous is it? i mean, i could understand not wanting to bring disease into a country... but i dont think that being heavy should keep you from entering a country.
ReplyAccording to the news account, it stated that she had to have a BMI of 25, which means she can not be ever a couple of pounds over her ideal weight.
BMI calculator: http://nhlbisupport.com/bmi/
I can understand a country having health guidelines for people entering their country, but to not allow someone even a few pounds over their "ideal" weight is rather draconian.
PLUS, no one has mentioned that not all overweight people are automatically unhealthy. One does not equal the other. There are lots of thin people with health issues, too. One of my relatives recently died of a heart attack. He was thin, a non-smoker and was active. He had no indicators at all and still suffered a coronary before he was 55.
ReplyThis is really interesting. Just yesterday I read about a woman in the U.K. denied hip surgery because of her weight -- surgeons considered it too risky. The article was about discrimination and talked about how we could be seeing more and more of discrimination because of weight.
ReplyHow about smokers, aren't they a risk and a strain on healthcare systems as well?
ReplyI think the hip surgery denial is a different case. Not only does a patient's heaviness create difficulty during the actual surgical procedure (anesthesia, etc) but in orthopaedic surgeries the recovery is key -- the extra weight can create many difficulties with the bone surgery actually healing properly. It's not a case of discrimination-- it's more like a medical necessity. If the surgeon feels it puts the patient at undue risk they are ethically bound to deny the elective procedure.
As for this visa denial, it definitely seems a bit wonky. Especially given that the target BMI is so low. If they only allow entry to BMIs of 25 or less their immigration people must have it pretty easy.
ReplyI've never emigrated anywhere.
The point is that a country can't accept everybody with any condition (or behaviour, for that matter) without running the risk of bankrupting the system, and sometimes that leads to heartbreaking family situations.
So where is the line drawn? Likely, with conditions that are known to heavily tax the system. On the whole (yeah, yeah, there are people who are overweight and healthy, but they're not the norm so you can't include them in the analysis)obese people, smokers, alcoholics/drug abusers, and the very elderly are a greater cost to the system. There are more, I'm sure, but those pop off the top of my head.
It's really not all that different from any other emigration criteria, I suppose. You're usually expected to come in with a grasp of the language and bring skills the country desires. Why not health as well?
ReplyUh oh. I am currently trying to get a visa in Australia. I hope their immigration laws aren't nearly that strict. My current BMI is 26.8.
ReplyI wonder if it matters that I am currently working very hard to lose weight and get down to within my "ideal weight" range.
You know something, people are always going on about health of fat people costing them money. Although I'm shedding pounds. That's crap, I can't get health insurance so if I get sick I die, what does that cost you? Discrimination is wrong.
ReplyWhile it's unfortunate that the two would be put apart by this, it's not an incredibly unreasonable requirement. It might be fair to say that the percentage of healthy 'fat' people is maybe, perhaps, just possibly slightly lower than the percentage of those who are fat and unhealthy (by which I mean, those who are unhealthy because of the lifestyle which made them fat). From the photo provided, she seems a beautiful and spirited woman, but nine times out of ten, weight, and the lifestyle that lead to the gain of it, will factor into a number of health problems.
If she had an injury unrelated to her weight, would doctors be able to give her the best care? The added pounds could significantly impair her recovery, which means more time under a doctor's care, and extra burden on the health system.
No, it's not only fat people that will have medical problems, but weight is a simple thing to screen for that often does impact one's health.
A BMI of 24.9 is not automatically an ideal weight, nor is it a particularly low one. It is the cut-off for what has been generally agreed upon as an 'acceptable' upper limit for the general populace, excluding those of high muscle-mass. My ideal weight is actually 19.2 because of my small frame, if I (and everyone else) were expected to adhere strictly to or below that, I would consider it low and unreasonable (especially considering my current BMI is 22.1), because some people aren't meant to weight that little even without a large amount of muscle.
As it is, they are simply expected to maintain a weight which is in the medically acceptable range.
ReplyThe government of any country has the right to deny a visa to anyone for any reason, I guess. If NZ decided that this woman would be putting a strain on the healthcare budget, they have a right to tell her to lose weight. I don't know if I agree with them telling her to get to a BMI of 25, but with a BMI of 42, it's probably fairly likely that she either has or will develop diseases related to her weight. I'm not saying she WILL develop problems, but the system has to have a way to evaluate the likelihood of problems developing. Of course thin people have heart attacks and whatnot, but the likelihood of a morbidly obese person having diabetes, sleep apnea, joint problems (knee/hip/ankle), and heart problems is a lot higher.
ReplyThat's an awfully simplistic way of looking at it. If you get sick, you don't just die. You get sick and must be treated. Let's say you get diabetes, then you pass out in a public place. You are rushed to the hospital and then, since you don't have insurance, you have enormous hospital bills that you can't pay. So, you declare bankruptcy. Who pays for your bills then? And if you do die, who pays for the cost of dealing with your ample remains? In New Zealand, I assume it is the taxpayers, that is, if they have public health care.
ReplyPublic health care is nice if you already live in a country where it is offered, but in those countries they probably limit immigration based on other health factors, not just weight. As far as preventable health problems go, weight is a factor. That can't be denied.
Just another example why America is the greatest country in the world.
Replylook at the u.s. health care system.....any illegal alien can walk into an emergency room and be treated for anything from a heart attack to the common cold and the taxpayers pay for it. meanwhile in some southern states wal-mart has decided to eliminate health insurance for overweight workers unless they go on a diet and other employers are not only testing for drugs but also for nicotine and terminating employees based on the results.
ReplyBTW, New Zealand has some seriously strict immigration laws. I was looking into it at one point in my life, and you pretty much need to have a job offer to even think about it. Even then, it has to be a well-paid job, you need be well-educated, and well within the working adult age range. That rules out about 90% of people, and the remaining 10% still need to have something good lined up for when they arrive.
ReplyIn my opinion, though, there is no such thing as "the greatest country in the world," because each has its ups and its downs.
ReplyPersonally I work in the medical field and my husband works in the insurance field and we both agree that any way you slice it, an unhealthy weight is a burden on the individual and society. Insurance premiums are higher and if the individual works for a company the entire company's premiums are higher. The only one who benefits are the drug companies, keeping them alive with their diabetic, high blood pressure and cholesterol meds.
ReplyInstead why not spread the word to every obese or even overweight person you know that there is a better way to live and love life. Healthy!!!!
LMAO. sarcasm, right?
ReplyWell, I am from New Zealand myself, and I'm not sure how I feel about this new development in NZ immigration law. On one side I believe that New Zealand needs to protect it's interests and it of course has every right to determine who enters it's borders. Then again, New Zealand is desperately lacking young, skilled, educated people. Every single 20 to 30 something I know who I went to Uni with has buggered off to England or Singapore or America to earn more money than we ever could in NZ. (Me included, I speak European languages and have settled nicely in Holland - removing my skills and education from the country) We need people like that Welshman, young, talented, educated. Who gives a crap what he weighs? He's obviously still mobile and so's his wife. They already speak English, they won't find it hard to integrate and lead a healthy kiwi lifestyle and their British standards and values are almost 100% similar to those of New Zealand. These are the kind of people that New Zealand needs and who I am happy to have in my country.
If the government is serious about them being drains on the system, why don't they just provide them with a new bike, or a years gym membership, or even a welcome basket with a pair of running shoes, a voucher to a health store and a sweat band? Well, actually - in this case they don't even have to do that. Just send a social worker to make sure that they join the Telecom (His employer) gym scheme. Cost? About 20 bucks an hour for the social worker... a hundred bucks max?
Considering the economic advantages that fatty could offer New Zealand, that's a damn good deal and I am severely disappointed in the government I voted for. They're rather hysterically banning "OMG TEH FATS!" without a single thought to the economic consequences.
ReplyObesity...and the diabetes that inevitably follows...costs U.S. taxpayers (medicaid!) and private companies billions every year. I do not blame New Zealand one bit. A BMI of 25 is not exactly svelte! All countries are going to deal with this problem and, gasp, people are going to have to take responsibility for how much they eat.
ReplyThe news account did not actually say that. It quoted the common interpretation that 25+ is overweight, and 30+ is obese. This is NOT the rule of the NZIS (New Zealand Immigration Service). If you go to their website, http://immigration.govt.nz, you can easily find the medical examiner handbook they use. It says if the BMI is > 35, then request additional tests, including fasting glucose. It does not give any particular BMI number to reject or accept. And, there are considerations for size, too, such as waist measurement. And age.
I went through the process in 2006, and got NZ residency with a BMI of 36+, I am a former smoker, and I am OLD, too! (just turned 65). Every case is judged individually. I filed my medical forms and then was asked to take additional tests, which were all related to the factors I just mentioned. Of course I passed those. I am big, but healthy.
As in so many cases, this story is presenting only part of the story, and to react solely on that information is not really quite rational.
If you really, really want to emigrate to NZ, the best thing to do is to marry a Kiwi!
ReplyWell NZIS are the worst of the worst.
Replyand as for that comment on marry a kiwi, lol even worst, they will find something to make sure you dont enter NZ, too fat too tall too dark, oh yeah and also religion nationality and other.
I have been through the process my self and it is 100% Racism.
each time you answer one of the demands another one pops up magically.
And it is not that too fat or not it is just an extra backup for them to reject you.
So, some of you think it's ok to say "your husband can work for us, but hey, we don't care if he loves you, you're fat, stay away???"
And refusing hip surgery is also ok? hell, the lady is fat and can hardly walk, without surgery she will become more and more unable to walk... and will gain more weight!
I thought that the point of paying the Social Security tax (in Portugal is 11% of your income) was to help everybody, including yourself when the time comes... It's not about choosing who WE want to help!
So spending taxes in helping people is an issue??? I get mad at my government when they spend our taxes buying luxury cars for ministers, or give money and resources to support stupid wars. Not for helping people in trouble.
ReplyFat bias really is everywhere. I thought it was a bigger problem in the U.S. but I guess all countries struggle with it.
ReplyMy BMI is 30... I would not be allowed in. My body fat percentage is 9.5%... Am I fat?
BMI is one of the worst things to use as a measurement for healthy weight. Government eating dumb science fodder.
Everyone is tested for various medical conditions if they are legally enter, and ask for citizenship in most developed nations. Remember Ellis Island?
ReplyI agree with Kailash - The NZ immigration policy was always a toughie... this is possibly not fattism but just an over-zealous regulator.
ReplyWell I think it is 100% Racism, and NZIS got no moral what so ever, what makes it worst is that no one is doing anything about it.
ReplyI thought that was immigrating is all about change of life and another chance, instead if you are not connected an NZ immigration officer can do whatever they want end of story, and unless you fight back you wont get a thing out of them.
You know over wight is a problem and no one likes to be overwighted but it is not something you can just make it go away.