An End to the Milk Controversy?

I like dairy products. I like cooked food. No eating plan that doesn't contain those things is going to be followed by me no matter how hard I try, so it really doesn't matter if cooked food and milk are unnatural. I have to work with the best I can do.

I have no problem with drinking milk, but if you want to lose weight, you have to consider that you are drinking calories. Drinking liquids normally does not fill you up long enough to sustain any appetite control. I would rather eat some protein snack that will fill me up.

julian said:
I have no problem with drinking milk, but if you want to lose weight, you have to consider that you are drinking calories. Drinking liquids normally does not fill you up long enough to sustain any appetite control. I would rather eat some protein snack that will fill me up.[...]

I agree with you about liquid calories, but in my experience, milk is an exception to this rule, it actually does fill me up when I drink it. Too bad dairy doesn't agree with me. :p

For what it's worth my experience with drinking milk in place of water as a child, and subsisting on mainly bread-cheese sandwiches as a teenager. I'm only listing the things that are positively, scientifically linked to dairy intake.

- reached puberty at 10 1/2, indicating highly increased risk of breast cancer (originally DD on a 5'1" frame) -- which would be prostate cancer if i were a guy
- increased risk of heart attack later in life
- moderate to severe acne
- addiction to dairy due to opiate compounds (same thing in wheat, heroin, morphine, etc)
- resulting 5-year struggle with severe mood disorders & mild bulemia
- calcium deficit
- overall inflammation and acidity, which of course is the underlying cause of all major disease

"Loving your calm intelligent discussion -- a rare skill I find."
"You're giving it a lot of thought and that's also what we need -- a lot more free-thinkers."
Agreed, a wonderful attitude throughout! So nice to chance upon this insightful discussion, though you are all probably gone by now ;o)

"An end to the milk controversy"
There really is no controversy amongst facts on this subject, only contradiction when you're looking at opinions. Truth is simple and usually self-evident. The evidence has been there for a pretty long time, and we shamelessly still accept big advertising instead of throwing out the TV. Why not spend some time on Google Scholar instead?

"Biologically, we are omnivores."
So are chimps and bonobos (which are a little closer to us than chimps). The greater problem is not what we ingest milk, but we DON'T ingest nearly enough leafy greens. They literally spend *most of their time eating* in chewing up greens. And we think we've evolved so far from that we can get by on some boiled spinach once a week?

Betcha didn't know that kale has 130% of the calcium in milk. Makes you wonder who to believe, doesn't it? Nutrientdata.com is a good place to start. Not to mention excess protein makes the body highly acidic, which in turn actually *leeches calcium from the bones* to alkalize the blood. The dairy industry is not about to advertise that the countries that consume the most milk actually have the highest risk of osteoporosis on the planet. Not good for the biz.

"I know many people will claim it is too risky to drink raw milk (you have to be careful whom you buy your milk from), but I personally feel it is too risky to drink milk with the added hormones."
So drink freshly made almond milk. It takes about five minutes and tastes amazing (really!).

"My view is that grains should be TOTALLY removed wherever possible but that it's not always practical or possible to do it."
I think most people would benefit from the removal of all true grains. They greatly acidify the body and most have high levels of gluten, which a great many are sensitive to. Also, grains are really only beneficial to humans when sprouted (otherwise they're bird food ;) The most alkalizing "grains" are millet, quinoa, amaranth & buckwheat. I'm not sure about gluten content, I'd have to look that one up.

"Gawd, we now have GM foods that allow farmers to destroy every living plant on a field apart from the GM product."
Yeah but don't forget what food scientists say, that GMO soy-marinade on your beef can reduce the carcinogens and mutagens when you fry it up! Yum.

"Are there any human cultures that don't cook food? Either it was invented more than 60,000 years ago or it has been invented many times. Cooking makes many foods digestible or more easily digested, and cooking kills pathogens. It also destroys some vitamins and can create carcinogens, so it has drawbacks. But, given how prevalent it is, the good must far outweigh the bad."
There have been a few cultures (reportedly the Hunzas, and of course Inuits) that have had great success. There have also been serious side effects of raw *vegan* diets documented. If you want to talk about absorption in the starchy root veggies, they can be processed in other ways such as blending, juicing, dehydrating, marinating, and other fun stuff to make them taste good. Steaming if necessary (which it really isn't if you give it some thought). But if you want the science to back up a primarily raw foods diet, I have a zip file with tons of scientific abstracts for anyone who is interested in my research exploits. Message me by name through any of Google's services. Also a free-to-all DVD with several gigs of info on the many aspects of the whole, raw foods lifestyle, incl video, podcasts, books, articles, charts, links, etc etc.

We need to have an attitude of abundance instead of scarcity. There is so much amazing food out there, and sadly we ignore it and go for the addictive refined foods we've been reared to find appealing. It takes about two weeks to a month for ANYONE to see dramatic results in energy, beauty and clear-thinking just from change of diet. But instead most opt for the "magic pill" and persist in apathy. Knowledge can change this. Please pass it on when you receive it, and try the greatest experiment of all--proving health to yourself.