Old Navy: Plus-size Clothing Taken Off Shelves

My wife and I were just at the mall this weekend, and they had this big blue sign posted all over the women's section: Plus Sizes Online Only This Summer. Here's a group who already has a difficult time finding clothes that fit all of the curves the right way. Fits the shoulders but not the bust. Fits the hips but not the waist. Fits the waist but the legs are 17 inches too long. Etc. Etc.

Why don't they just come out and say, "We don't want fat people in our stores. Now, waddle yourself on over to LB."

Signed,
Glad I'm Not A Woman

Pfft, as if they have any plus sizes at Old Navy anymore anyway. I used to buy jeans there (size 16/18). They actually had jeans in that size, that hit at the waist (jeans that hit me anywhere on the hips fit me really weird, I need the waistline at the natural waist) and had actual, usable pockets (I need pockets).

Now they only carry 12 and under, low rise only, useless decorative "pockets" only. Old Navy sucks.

"We don't want fat people in our stores."

Who is "we," Jarrett? Are you saying that the decision was made because there were fat customers in the store? Would this decision have been made at a board of directors meeting? By the marketing VP? By the operations VP? Was there a staff report outlining the situation before the decision was made? Perhaps a Powerpoint? Were McKinsey consultants involved?

And what happened to the people who developed the plus line and planned the merchandising for it in 150 stores? Were they laid off when "we" discovered, belatedly, months and years later, what had happened?

Will thesmokinggun.com or internalmemos.com come into possession of the sordid proof of this? Stay tuned.

The only reason for this was that the profit coming in per linear foot of shelf space for plus clothing was less than for regular clothing.

As much shopping as I do on line, I've never bought clothes on line. I need to try them on to make sure that they fit me corectly.

I can't imagine that this will generate a lot of business for their online store.

Brian

Mark wrote:

The only reason for this was that the profit coming in per linear foot of shelf space for plus clothing was less than for regular clothing.

Airlines are moving their seats closer and closer to improve the profit per linear foot. It makes the passengers feel like cattle. Airlines can get away with it because the market is so price driven. I'm surprised that Old Navy would be so similarly constrained. Maybe it's time to sell the Old Navy stock...

I'd like to see Joy Nash (from the Fat Rant clip in a previous post) give 'em a good talking too.

There's no way to know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if the removal of bigger sizes was at least in part about branding and image.

I'm with the others who said it's really difficult to buy clothes that fit online. I'd be mad if I were plus sized and was told, basically, we don't want you in our stores anymore.

Back when I used to shop at Old Navy, I'd see plus sizes (up to 2XL back then). But, when you tried it on, it was the equivalent of XL anywhere else. Maybe that changed in the past few years, but that was the reason I stopped shopping there.

Hmmm...actually, that's rather surprising on Old Navy's part. If it was an economic decision, then I think they're failing at economics. I would imagine Plus Sized clothing would be a expanding market; not contracting.

Quito said:
Airlines are moving their seats closer and closer to improve the profit per linear foot. It makes the passengers feel like cattle. Airlines can get away with it because the market is so price driven. I'm surprised that Old Navy would be so similarly constrained. Maybe it's time to sell the Old Navy stock...[...]

Maybe they had a study that said customers who buy the plus sizes are more likely to buy online, or something like that. I do know that a lot of size acceptance sites have links to online vendors, so maybe they found a way to have their cake and eat it too (pun unintended) by catering to the plus size customers online, and the regular size ones in the stores.

I am really dissapointed about this as I used to buy their clothes all the time. I do agree that this must be part of their "image" issue, I think ON is trying to sellt o a younger hipper crowd and must feel that those of us who are really hip-ey dont pass muster.

One problem could be people didn't know the clothes existed. I don't even walk into a store that doesn't have my size, and the few times I went to Old Navy with thinner friends, I never saw plus sizes. Nationally, 175 stores isn't very many to begin with... I searched the Old Navy site and found 32 stores in my state alone.

The "showcase online" bit is either complete bs, or a total lack of understanding the plus size consumer... I never buy clothes online because my proportions are not standard. I won't know how it looks on me until it's ON me, and I don't want the hassle of returning items. I've spent enough time returning clothes that looked good on the hanger, but not on me from the dressing room as it is.

I'm a little disappointed that everyone is so upset with Old Navy for TRYING something and then deciding it didn't work for them. Most stores don't sell clothing that large. The fact is, people that are that overweight usually need to go to special stores, buy online, or have clothing specially made. No one is upset with Target for not stocking their sizes in the first place. Old Navy is just coming under fire because they tried a plan and they decided it failed. If they had never done it in the first place, they wouldn't being getting any flack now.

Actually, I'm a size 28, and the top two places I find clothes that fit me? Target and Walmart. Every single one of them. I think where Old Navy failed was advertising, and consistency.

I believe in the Chicago area (at least where I am), the only ON that offered the plus line was downtown on State Street and I haven't seen any signs saying that they'll be going online only. The store is enormous (3 stories) so that could be why but I don't have a problem ordering online, the shipping is only $5 and they have a better assortment online so I don't have an issue with this.

Did anyone ever notice when they went into the sale section of old navy that there was never anything in a 4 or 6 but only xl, xxl, xxxl etc because no one ever bought it? All their extra merchandise that was never purchased was plus sized, because well, plus sized people apparently don't shop at old navy. its time to get used to the idea that there are going to be regular stores and plus sized stores because its a strain to size from 00 to 5XL. Its not cost effective. Live with it. It has nothing to do with prejudice against heavier people it has to do with money. It also has to to with not ruining the appearance of the store, and you cant make a fluid looking store catering to both groups... aethetically its just too much a pain in the ass. You harm the sales of both clientèle bases by trying to cater to both in the same space.

They're a store... who cares what they do? It either will hurt their bottom line and they'll suffer for it, or help it (because of less excess stock). Capitalism works I think; and a store does not have any responsibility to a greater social message. If I had a store, it would be to make money. Let them.

The market will punish or reward them as it sees fit. *shrugs* supply/demand.

They are clearly trying to keep up with the Gaps and other trendy stores only offering clothing in sizes of those they deem to be their target market.

Srange though they don't see a size zero as wrong couldn't have anything to do with half the fashion models today look like they would blow away in a strong wind.

Anyway market forces will decide whether their decision is customer focused or not.

It seems that so many companies have forgotten they won't be in business without customers... what ever their size!

I have to agree about the comments that HEY they did try it, because they didn't start out with the bigger sizes...

but on another note about all of this, all the times I was in Old Navy and in dressing rooms and what not, I NEVER saw anyone who was even big enough to be fitting into those clothes who was ALSO trying the clothes on or shopping for them.

It could very well be a case that they offered it but found (sadly) that people of those sizes don't shop for those clothes in public and the cost effectiveness has gone down for them to ship all the clothes out to all the stores.

I think Old Navy would be making a much larger statement if they were going to discontinue offering clothes above a 12 all together.

Would you all be this peeved off if we were talking about petites? And I don't mean size 00, I mean genuinely under 5'4", no-matter-how-big-around-you-are, petites? Try being short AND overweight, whoo hoo, that's a laugh riot. Those airline seats may be getting closer together, but the overhead compartments aren't getting any lower. There are -isms everywhere you turn. At least Old Navy makes Plus sizes. My current weight plunks me into a "normal" BMI, but I can't wear their stuff because I'm full in the wrong places and the stuff that does fit is way too long.

Eddie Bauer only sells "regular" sized clothing in their stores too. Plus sizes and petites have to shop online, and buy multiple sizes and return the ones that don't work. Should we call them out on the carpet too?

Let's put this in perspective. Old Navy is just making a harsh but necessary business decision. It sucks for many of us, but that's their call.

I think this is the beginning of changes we'll see across the entire Gap organization - Gap, Old Navy, Banana. The company's been having a rough time of it lately.

Maybe it will help if they price their clothes reasonably. Clothes are a soooooooooooooooooo expensive here. Even yet the fabric will so thin and flimsy...are we paying for air ? Ofcourse these guys will (and should haha) suffer loss for selling us overpriced handkerchiefs.

Were are the normal tops and tshirts, reasonably thick fabric and built for women....give us some rooooooooooom to fit our bust in ! Jeez. What are the designers thinking! Even a size XL is only slightly broader, but not fuller. Dont these designers understand the human body ? A bigger woman is not the same as a bigger man, she needs room, not just more width.

Sorry for the rant. Its really frustrating.

SM said:
Maybe it will help if they price their clothes reasonably. Clothes are a soooooooooooooooooo expensive here. Even yet the fabric will so thin and flimsy...are we paying for air ? Ofcourse these guys will (and should haha) suffer loss for selling us overpriced handkerchiefs.[...]

I am from a so-called third world country.
Its ok to pay good price for good quality.
You are right though Old Navy is one of the better stores. But a lot of stores sell cheap looking, thin fabric at exorbitant prices.

Surprisinly a lot of these fabrics seem to be imported from the '3rd world' but you will be hard pressed to find such material in that country and for that kind of price!

The American fashion industry is probably minting money, importing cheap fabric and selling it as something 'exotic' with a price tag to match!

>> Did anyone ever notice when they went into the sale section of old navy that there was never anything in a 4 or 6 but only xl, xxl, xxxl etc because no one ever bought it?

Not at Old Navy (don't have them where I live) but most certainly at other stores. If you don't hit the sales early, all that's left are the very small sizes (European 34) and the large (44 and up).

Short One has a point about the vast majority of stores not carrying petite sizes, but nobody would concede the point that the stores dont want short(er) people in their stores for fear of ruining their image.

i think the reasonable explanation for stores not carrying petite sizes and plus sizes is because of the lack of space to display regular sizes 0-whatever, then petite sizes 0-whatever, and then plus sizes whatever-whatever. the stores would have to be frickin enormous to be able to display all of their items in all of those sizes, in addition to having all those clothes in stock in the stockrooms.

why does the smallest of things get construed to be an attack on heavier people? and why does the topic of people being size zeros always get pegged as being unhealthy/unnatural/eating disordered? is it just me or are people a bit too sensitive?

Honestly, the clothing available for larger sizes (size 24+) rarely exist anywhere. I am a size 28 (basically a 4x) and i am also cursed with being almost 6 feet tall. Just like "short one", barely any store sells tall clothing in the store. The only place I've found, and I LOVE is Torrid. (its the plus size hot topic) and they carry tall, stretchy jeans by BABY PHAT. They run around $79 a pair, but its all I've found.

Also Old Navy's sizes run about 2 sizes too small according to the standard "junior plus size" sizing chart, and also always run short. I figured this out a LONG time ago, and thats the only reason I never purchased anything from their line.

There is a massive plus size market just waiting to be catered to. I think thats why I've made it my life goal to make my own clothing line.

snoop and short one: the difference between plus sizes sections vs. petite sizes sections in mainstream stores is that society doesn't makes fun of a woman shopping in the petite section. there isn't an entire industry devoted to getting the petite woman to grow taller, thereby not being petite anymore. (getting women to wear stilettos all the time doesn't count) sure, there are petite women who are overweight, but there are also very tall women who are overweight. clothes aren't one-size fits all, no matter how much the mainstream clothing designers would like it to be. for the record, i've found more mainstream stores that carry clearly marked and designated petite sections - ann taylor, for one. however, ann taylor's stores don't offer the same type of selection for plus size.

old navy is just doing what their parent company, the gap, started doing years ago. they carry the plus sizes, but only online, because nobody wants to be seen as catering to a customer that doesn't necessarily fit the aesthetic that their PR people want to attract. h&m offered a fantastic plus size clothing line for about one minute a few years ago, and then quickly started offering 'maternity'...driving home the message that the h&m customer should only be 'that big' if she's expecting. oddly enough, i was looking to find some gap jeans online in plus sizes, but unfortunately only the most unattractive jeans on the face of the earth were offered in plus size. old navy's plus size line wasn't too better.

my point was that it is not feasible for a store to be able to carry such an extensive range of sizes (regular, plus size, petites, tall, men, women, children) given the amount of space that they actually have in their store. old navy's decision to discontinue carrying plus sizes is not necessarily one that drives the message that plus size people should lose weight in order to fit into "normal" sizes that are found in their stores. if they didnt want their clothing to be worn by plus size people, they would have discontinued manufacturing plus size clothing altogether.

as for aesthetic and pr motivations, it seems to me that if 2/3s of all americans are either overweight or obese, old navy would be dumb as heck to stigamtize that vast majority of the population. ergo, they havent decided to discontinue the production of plus size clothing. however, as most clothing brands go, they (including old navy) did not start off as catering to a plus size market and most companies tend to not want to drastically alter the image that has been with their brand for so long.

as an asian woman a problem that i regularly face when buying pants is that my hips dont fill out the pants in which the legs fit perfectly. i have small hips and not much junk in the trunk. but im not going to jump to the conclusion that apparel manufacturers are trying to keep me out of their stores by purposely making clothes that dont fit me. we all have problems finding clothes that fit us-- doesnt matter if you're underweight, normal weight, or overweight. you just gotta do the leg work yourself to find clothes that fit you. it sucks, but that's life isnt it?

It's not just bigger people that have clothes problems: I have the opposite problem at Old Navy. I'm 5'2" and around 112 pounds and I can't shop there because anything bigger than a 0 is too BIG. And they so rarely have a 0 anything that I don't even bother going in there anymore. Even some of the 0 stuff just barely fit. What are they going to do, have minus sizes? Any other store I'd be wearing something between 2 or 6. Do they really think they are fooling people by making size 2 clothes a normally size 8 person can wear? I really think they should just sell clothes by the good old bust-waist-hip measurements so we can tell at a glance "oh, my hips won't fit that dress!"

Plus, half the clothes my size are cut like a sack and make it look like I woke up and grabbed somebody else's clothes. And clothes cut to fit better are generally teeny-bopper "slutty" type stuff...

I guess my point is that clothing stores are like any other business, they sell to the biggest share of the market, which is none of us complaining here. :-)

Snoop's comment made me laugh though. I have the opposite problem, again. It's hard to find pants that fit my hips and butt that aren't extremely baggy on my legs or have five extra inches around the waistband...

Erica said:
Did anyone ever notice when they went into the sale section of old navy that there was never anything in a 4 or 6 but only xl, xxl, xxxl etc

Funny you say that... I was just about to post (er, and am currently posting) that whenever I go to the sale section at Old Navy, it's always 00, 0, 2, etc. The 12/14, XL, XXL sizes are always completely sold out. I'v honestly never seen a surplus of plus sizes in the sales rack.

Also, Old Navy definitely cuts their clothes smaller than other stores. And that's to say nothing of the fact that their quality control is non-existant!

njtx71: no, society doesn't make fun of short women shopping in the petite department, but it does talk down to them, albeit literally not figuratively. maybe you don't realize how it feels to have to ask for help getting stuff off the top shelf at the grocery store (where they keep the "healthier" food, by the way) because you can't reach, or to have strangers give you unrequested and unwanted advice on any issue under the sun because you're the same height as their young teenager, or the babysitter, or whomever they know that is younger than them and the same height as you.

look, we've all got our beef. my point is that ON is simply doing what hundreds of other mainstream retailers are already doing - making a very wide range of sizes available to a whole bunch of people, but just doing it in different channels.

I've seen more petites-only clothing stores shut down than plus-sized only stores. Does that mean Randy Newman got it right and that "short people got no reason to live"? I don't think so. It's economics, plan and simple.

by the way, I'm 5' 1". There's no way I'm running around all day in stilettos so I can be almost as tall as the average woman.

i dont know what the sizes are like at old navy but i do shop at the gap every now and then it seems to me that gap is taking size 2's and labeling them as 0's, and 4's into 2's, etc. i have a pair of size 2 gap jeans from 5 years ago that i can barely fit into now (and after squeezing myself into them, it is impossible to bend and sit down in them without cutting off blood circulation to parts of my body), and i recently bought a pair of size 2 gap jeans that are loose around the hips and thighs.

i think that there is a trend going on to label clothes as being smaller than they actually are so that when people fit into these supposedly smaller sizes, it makes them feel so happy to be wearing a smaller size when in fact they arent.

also, it is kinda ridiculous when one can fit into a size 0 in a certain brand but can barely squeeze into a size 5 in another. what is going on?

also, njtx71 said that "clothes arent one-size fits all no matter how much the mainstream clothing designers would like it to be." i totally agree and disagree. obviously, clothes arent one-size fits all. but i dont think that designers necessarily like it to be, let alone think it is. you just cant expect clothing stores to manufacture, say, standard size 0-16, size 0-16 wide hips, size 0-16 narrow hips, and do the same thing for thighs, and whatever body part that people tend to have as a problem area. clothing manufacturers make clothes that they think will generally fit most people, thus will sell, thus make the stores money. unfortunately, some of us fall through the cracks of these "standard" cuts and sizes in which case, i will say again, it's up to you to do the leg work to find clothes that fit you, and if they dont fit you in a particular way, then go to a frickin tailor and get it hemmed, taken in, taken out, whatever. let's stop complaining that clothes of a certain store dont fit us. there are things that you can do remedy a lot of these problems.

snoop said:
i have small hips and not much junk in the trunk. but im not going to jump to the conclusion that apparel manufacturers are trying to keep me out of their stores by purposely making clothes that dont fit me. we all have problems finding clothes that fit us-- doesnt matter if you're underweight, normal weight, or overweight. you just gotta do the leg work yourself to find clothes that fit you. it sucks, but that's life isnt it?[...]

Amen

let's get something straight:

1. just as the comments that petite women get, the comments that tall, large women get aren't fun, either.
2. i'm a plus size model working in the new york area. even as a model - i could go into a booking with the designers knowing full well what my size and measurements are, then i try on the garment and it doesn't fit. my mother was a also model who worked in the dallas area over 30 years ago. she had to be careful of the lining of dresses because the lining is obviously cut smaller than the garment, and if the lining didn't fit right, the garment wouldn't fit.

the song remains the same: you have to look hard to find clothes that fit you right, and if that doesn't work, you have to make them, which is what my mother did for me for basically the first twenty years of my life. i'm familiar with having to hunt for clothes.

my point was that it is not feasible for a store to be able to carry such an extensive range of sizes (regular, plus size, petites, tall, men, women, children) given the amount of space that they actually have in their store.

that makes sense to me, but the store in question is old navy. i have never been in an old navy store that would be categorized as small. in fact, the ones in manhattan have 2 and 3 floors! they have room for maternity and kids but not room for plus size?

if they didnt want their clothing to be worn by plus size people, they would have discontinued manufacturing plus size clothing altogether.

the fastest growing retail market for women's clothes is in plus size. sure there are plenty of online catalogs that cater to straight and plus sizes (chadwick's, jessica london to name a few), but they don't have brick-and-mortar stores for customers to physically shop in. any retailer interested in making money wouldn't stop designing clothes for the plus size market - even though many decide that plus size is really maternity like H&M...but what is the bigger message they send by ONLY offering it online?

as for aesthetic and pr motivations, it seems to me that if 2/3s of all americans are either overweight or obese, old navy would be dumb as heck to stigamtize that vast majority of the population.

the argument can be made that society has been doing this for years, regardless of the clothing measurements of the population. it's changing very slowly with regards to plus size women in mass media, but i'm still looking for the 'real women' in those dove ads.

The clothing at Old Navy was hit and miss, the things that were cute were snapped up quickly, the less cute things were left to languish on the shelves. Instead of marketing a whole other line, they should of just made bigger sizes in everything, or at least their more popular items. I would wistfully walk by all the cute clothes then go to the back where I'd have to pick through shiftless mumu's looking for something.

I recently had a family get together and I went to Old Navy for an outfit. I am 23 and was a 12/14 before my daughter was born 4 months ago, but I am an 18/20 with all this baby weight. It was a nightmare buying clothes there recently. Not only do I have the awkward post-baby belly to contend with, but it is obvious they are gearing their women's clothing line toward the tween and high schooler crowd. I am no stranger to Old Navy. I have been buying clothes there for YEARS. This Old Navy had one of the Plus Size departments. It was PACKED with people- more than usual! The clearance racks were filled with 0-6.

I'm sure you have noticed the section of the store with the more "sophisticated" pricey pieces (slacks, blouses, etc.) with the fancier tags. The sizes ended at 12...IF there was one left. I struck up a convo with a seasoned employee who told me the Plus Size section was going to be pulled and how it's a shame because it has caused more customers to actually BUY their clothes, not just go in there are browse the backs of the racks for the largest sizes in hopes they would fit. They were seeing greater sales with the addition of the Plus Size section.

I ended up buying an XL top and a 1x skirt from the Plus Size department.

I guess all those customers won't have the leisure of going to a store, trying on the selections, making their purchase and going home to enjoy their clothes that same day. The growing, larger demographic has to shop in their homes, pay S&H, purchase many sizes to make sure you get the right size, wait days to get the clothes, then have to ship the rest back. It's ridiculous.

I'm not very old, I'm a college educated 23 year old young woman, but I can clearly see the models, mannequins, music they are playing as you shop, as well as styles that are clearly geared toward young teens and/or smaller women/teens. But the Old Navy stores also carry many popular styles at affordable prices and have many store locations for convenience. It really is a shame they don't want to keep those sizes because it's obvious that with the growing larger demographic, they could only profit from carrying larger sizes in their popular stores. Maybe they should take a look at what they are NOT selling by looking at their clearance racks filled with those tiny sizes that look like children's clothes.

Ha!..... I don't shop at old navy. I shop at hot topic. That place rules!

I will make sure to let all my plus size pals know that old navy discriminates! no more shopping there!