The Curse of Man-Boobs

Diet-Blog said: I know of men that have taken overall body fat percentage down below 10% and still have a puffiness around the nipple area. [...]

Shoot for below 5%. If it's not gone by then, you might want to start worrying. Different people distribute fat differently. Personally, I'm fine below even 20%. I'll have to thank my parents for keeping me away from processed food and more than occasional soy.

"Men - what's your take?"

Real gynecomastia is pretty rare and has to do with hormonal imbalance –
fat loss is not going to help in those cases.

Bodybuilding forums are oversaturated with this stuff because of AAS use. Without proper cycling – most AAS shut down natural testosterone production – which leads to elevated estrogen levels, which in turn, is a shortcut to man-boobs.

In some cases, however, so-called man-boobs are a product of excess body fat, but in those cases, they look quite different from those caused by real gynecomastia.

I happen to be a member of one of the finest health clubs in the US! Just today, I was walkiing around the club and thinking,"We sure have a lot of body builders here!" Unfortunately,Ryan, they are not like you! They are building large fat bodies! Personally, I think too much bulk is unhealthy, whether muscle or fat. But in fairness to you, I have looked at some of the people you have mentioned as being very symetrical, etc, and they do NOT look too big to me. Maybe another more appropriate term needs to be found. Sometimes, with all the bad press doctors get I wish the ones who still believe and practice in the founding ways of medicine could call themselves by another name.

Dr. J: Good idea, but, if anyone gets a new name, it should be those monsters you see at the gym. Real bodybuilding came first. I've thought about this, and I think part of it is that people these days want to look big all the time, even clothed or in repose. That's what's masculine to them. It's not necessary though. For example, Vince Gironda himself, minimum mass for maximum optical effect (see how wide his shoulder appear):

Vince Gironda, the Iron Guru

Ryan said:
Shoot for below 5%[...]

iFitandHealthy said:
Real gynecomastia is pretty rare[...]

Jim said:
5% body fat? That's pretty much bodybuilder competitor level is it not? How achievable is that to the average guy just wanting to get rid of his moobs? [...]

Bodybuilders compete at more like 2-3%. But, if you want to find out if it's really gynaecomastia or just excess fat, I don't know how else to do it. The upside is you only have to do it once.

I think all you need to do to find out if it is gynaecomastia is take a look. A guy with fat on his chest won't have just puffy slightly cone-shaped moobs, he'll have a fat chest, fat under his armpits, etc. If you'd ever seen someone with gynaecomastia, you'd know.

Also, if it is excess fat, the overall measuring can be 10%, but you bet that the fold around the chest will be something like 17%. If that fold were 3%, you'd also know it is not excessive body fat in the chest area.

Of course, since bodybuilding is full of people who want to be big but remain fat, like Dr. J mentioned, the theory that it is gynaecomastia and not just excess fat is more appealing to them. Trying to get more testosterone sounds more fun than going on a "girly" cut.

Once you've seen it, you never want to see it again!

Ryan, I read about Vince Gironda! He certainly was ahead of his time! Very fit and intuitive about health matters.

I surfed that site (the classic bodybuilder one) a bit and then got to some page about bodybuilders in videos that just sounded a bit... like gay porn? I don't know. It was the tone of the descriptions of the movies, haha.

iFitandHealthy said:
Real gynecomastia is pretty rare and has to do with hormonal imbalance – fat loss is not going to help in those cases.[...]

Potential pathologic causes of gynecomastia are: medications including hormones, increased serum estrogen, decreased testosterone production, androgen receptor defects, chronic kidney disease, chronic liver disease, HIV, and other chronic illness.

Medications cause 10-20% of cases of gynecomastia in adults. These include cimetidine, omeprazole, spironolactone, Imatinib Mesylate, finasteride and certain antipsychotics.

Some act directly on the breast tissue, while others lead to increased secretion of prolactin from the pituitary by blocking the actions of dopamine (prolactin-inhibiting factor/PIF) on the lactotrope cell groups in the anterior pituitary. Androstenedione, used as a performance enhancing food supplement, can lead to breast enlargement by excess estrogen activity. Medications used in the treatment of prostate cancer, such as antiandrogens and GnRH analogs can also cause gynecomastia.

Increased estrogen levels can also occur in certain testicular tumors, and in hyperthyroidism. Fat (body fat) also stores estrogens which may be liberated during weight loss and contribute to development of gynecomastia; excess body fat may also elevate estrogens in men leading to development of breast tissue.

Certain adrenal tumors elevate levels of androstenedione which is converted by the enzyme aromatase into estrone, a form of estrogen. Other tumors that secrete hCG can increase estrogen. A decrease in estrogen clearance can occur in liver disease, and may be the mechanism of gynecomastia in liver cirrhosis. Decreased testosterone production can occur in congenital or acquired testicular failure, may also contribute to elevated estrogens.

Diseases of the hypothalamus or pituitary can also lead to low testosterone. Abuse of anabolic steroids can have this effect.

Lastly, topical applications of products containing lavender and tea tree oils are associated with gynecomastia in prepubescent males, due to their estrogenic and antiandrogenic activity.

I think we need to distinguish between true gynecomastia and men with so much excess fat that they have what we refer to as breasts. (Not mammaries as Howard Hughes called them) :-)

Regina - you've most comprehensively covered all the bases. But - is gynecomastia on the increase? And if so what is causing this?

I recently read about lavender and tea tree oil -- which presumably means that affect could begin at infancy. When else would a boy have lavender and tea tree oils applied?

Jim said:
But - is gynecomastia on the increase? And if so what is causing this?[...]

I'm not sure that it's increasing - the incidence/prevalence rate today is pretty much the same as years past from what I've read - 5.5% of adult men have overt symptoms; what's "up" is the finding that up to 15% total (including those with overt symptoms) have some degree of gynecomastia....increased incidence? Perhaps....or maybe just a higher degree of recognition of the lesser degree symptoms?

Potentially it truly is increasing when we factor in increased obesity rates and the concurrent rise in circulating estrogens and oft found decline in testosterone...there is just no review published that makes that connection (atleast not that I could find).

Jim said:
I recently read about lavender and tea tree oil -- which presumably means that affect could begin at infancy. When else would a boy have lavender and tea tree oils applied?[...]

I'm not sure about lavendar, other than it's a popular ingredient in many baby bath solutions...but tea tree oil has creeped into some things....for example, where my son gets his hair cut, they use a tea tree shampoo and an assortment of other tea tree oil based products - I have to ask they not use them on his hair & skin!

Tea tree oil is also used as a natural antiseptic and anti-fungal...so some use it to protect nails from fungal growth (or treat it), wipe scapes and cuts, etc.

From what I've read about both oils, they both have estrogenic and antiandrogenic activities when used topically....if their use is stopped, the symptoms of gynecomasty seem to resolve without any other intervention.

Dr.J said:
He certainly was ahead of his time![...]

As far as nutrition goes, it's almost scary how prophetic the old bodybuilders were. One bodybuilder, either in the late 1800's or early 1900's, warned people against refined carbohydrates and factory farmed meat. I think it comes from the severe attention to how our bodies react to things.

i here lots of people here saying my uper body fat is 5%/10% etc... how do you find this out?