Vanity Sizing

I know that I always make sure to stay in a size 8 or 6 - I do not want to wear double digits.

The fact that sizing is not consistent is a pain! I NEVER order clothing from catalogs or online because I am unsure whether the merchant's size 8 is really a 10 or a true 8.

Women's clothing manufacturers are THE worst! No two size 6's or size 4's or size 8's are the same, which makes ordering clothes almost impossible. On the other hand, I think men's clothing has been constructed the same for centuries - by waist and inseam, for example. My husband is 6'4" and yet he can order just about anything and it'll fit! And women's clothing manufacturers get away with it BECAUSE of the perceived obsession with size. I don't think us average citizens (I'm really not shedding any tears over the women spending $5000 on a dress, are you?) are so much obsessed with our clothing labes that we wouldn't trade it for some consistency. I would love to know that ANY outfit I bought in my size is going to fit. Period.

This bothers the living you-know-what out of me. I have size 12 pants in my closet from 10 years ago that fit perfect, but now size 12 pants that I buy today are too big. It's so dumb, and it completely feeds into our size-obsessed culture. All that talk about how Marilyn Monroe was a size 14, so feel good about yourself? A size 14 today and a size 14 back in her day are two totally different things now.

Size 00 isn't new--other stores have it. But just because they call it 00 doesn't mean it's small. It just means that for the particular line they needed to accommodate a smaller size. My wife wears anything from 0 to 6, depending on the brand, but we found a 00 blouse last year that was clearly too big for her. It's just that the store's normal clientele (and thus its size range) was, ahem, larger.

Rather than looking at the size, it's more useful to actually measure the garment. For instance, flatten a blouse and measure the width at the bottom of the armscye.

Even within the same store the sizes are crazy. I remember when I was about 145lb I walked out of a store (not a dept one that sells many brands, one that sells a single brand) with 2 a-line skirts, one was a 2 and one was a 10. Same store, same day, same cut skirts. At that weight, I was neither a 10 nor a 2, though the 10 was less crazy cause I was usually an 8.

Last week I got a size 2 skirt that is baggy and needs to be taken in, and the jacket to match in a size 10. I'm clearly smaller on top than on the bottom, but this store likes to vanity size just the bottoms, so that pear-shaped women feel better. I'm a 6, sometimes 4 now.

To be honest I don’t know my size because all of the sizing problems. I would rather have honesty and have something that looks good. Also body type has a lot to do with it as well. I am a bigger size than people who weigh more than I do because of hight and bone structure.

In New Zealand manufacturers have changed the grading on clothing to accommodate what they describe as the changing shape of women. They are larger by up to 2" in all the major measurements with extra width in the hips due to the increasing circumference of hips and bottoms. More women have pear shaped figures than ever before!

I agree with the commenters above. Women's clothing needs to be using actual measurements! The sizes mean nothing because they are established out of thin air. There should be a revolution to make manufacturers create standard sizes.

Well im dont i'll ever be a size 0, but so many shops have the wrong size on clothes. Just when you're clothes a finally lose, you want to buy new one's (a smaller size) they dont fit! You go the next shop they do..... What's going? doesnt every shop measure their colthes the same?
Im 5 foot 2 and about 117lbs. im too short to be a model, and not as pretty.. But still, why does the media make models who are are thin as those starving in the developing counties look so ''good''???... WHY DONT THEY JUST BE REALISTIC!!!
I mean yes there are many thin girls out there but majority are size 8-12...

We as consumers don't drive the trends in fashion at all, do we? Aren't WE driven by the designers when it's all said and done?

The inconsistency in sizing is extremely annoying when it comes to womenswear, and of course designers are enjoying the financial benefit of padding ladies' fragile egos when it comes to our weight. However, if I may point something out, the truth is that no matter what the tag in your pants says, the mirror is not going to say anything different. Your health isn't going to say anything different. The splitting seam running from your waistband to your crotch is not going to say anything different.

Annoying, yes. But instead of whining about more reasons why society is trying to "trick" us into lying to ourselves about the condition of our bodies, why not just cut the tag out to begin with? I'm also going to note that things like height, bone structure and muscle tone as well as clothing cut make such a difference in numeric size.

No one is really kidding themselves here. Do you really feel better about yourself because you can put on a billowy Talbot's size 8 you know is cut to make you pat yourself on the back? If I personally was in that position, I would prefer to zip myself into a size 12 pair of Armani trousers and know my confident ass looks smaller in something chic and well-cut.

I can't stand vanity sizing. It makes it extremely hard to find decent clothes that fit correctly. I usually pull on size 4 pants (smallest they usually carry in misses' sizes) only to find they are extremely baggy and make me look fat. So I have to put on ridiculously low cut juniors' size 0-2's that don't flatter me either. I really wish they'd size clothes by measurements and not by whatever criteria they do use. My husband can walk into any store and go find a pair of 34/34's and know they'll fit. I wish I could do the same.

Dressmaker's sizes are still non-vanity sizes though. When my sister had her bridesmaid's dresses made, we picked out the pattern and the regular sizes went from 2-12. According to the measurements, I was a 6, not a 0. My sister's friend was a 22 and normally she wears a 16 or so, so we had to get the plus-size pattern as well.
But hey, the dresses fit and looked good, so I didn't really care what size it was.

But you'll always have people out there like my aunt, who for a long time, refused to go above a size 14. She would SQUEEZE her size 20 body into size 14 dresses, making her look just awful. Everyone knew what she was doing, she wasn't fooling anyone but herself.

I'm a former plus sizer and have lost 100+ lbs. One of the only good things about being plus sized is that once I knew my size, that size always fit, no matter what it was. Plus sizing is pretty consistent; I guess the plus size designers don't bother to vanity size. When I was in plus sizes, I could order from catalogs, from TV or online. I could buy clothes off the rack without trying them on (when you wear a size 22, you hate to try clothes on, it is a true ordeal). But, now that I am 100 lbs lighter, I'm sometimes an 8, sometimes a 10, sometimes a 12 and even sometimes a 14. The times I've ordered from catalogs, I've had to return the things most of the time because they don't fit. Yesterday I was in Macy's -- I bought a size 8 coat and a size 10 pantsuit but I couldn't fit into another maker's size 12. And, yes, I was unwilling to put on a 14 just to buy that one outfit -- I worked too hard to get down in the sizes. That's not vanity, that's survival!

Nothing to lose, I'm with you. What matters is what the mirror tells you, not a tag.

Spectra, the largest size here in regular stores is 10, sometimes 8. Since we have a ton of women who'd need 12, 14, and 16, we see a lot of people spilling out of their clothes in ways that frankly look painful to me, like your aunt. I find it awful. Just buy something bigger, sheesh.

Maggie, I personally don't care that I just had to buy a 10 on a jacket, I size I wore on my top when I was around 30lb heavier. My size 10 jacket fits and looks great, and that is all that matters to me.

I think a lot of heavier women feel that they sweated blood to lose the weight and get down past a certain size, and they never want to wear it again. Given the known variation in women's sizes, it may be irrational -- it makes a lot of sense to say "ignore the tag, it's the fit that counts" -- but once you fit into a 12 when you used to be a 22, it's a crushing blow to have to put on an 18 again, even if you know you haven't regained a pound. Other people judge, too -- which is the reason I cut the tags out of blazers and sweaters. I don't want to leave something lying over the back of a chair for anyone else to inspect. My business, and if it fits, I'm happy. But someone else might not be.

I personally detest vanity sizing. I am designer size 4, so I'm honestly not the biggest person, however I don't feel I should have to buy an extra-small or resort to children's clothing just to find something that fits. If I have to buy the smallest size available, what about the women who are smaller than me (and I am one of the biggest people in my social group), should they be forced into a life of baggy clothing just because size 14 women would rather believe they are a size 10?

I think size zero is oxymoronic. It seems to be a way of saying "I do not want to exist".

It would be a lot more practical if they would just size the clothing the way their do for men, where the numbers represent real measurements (inches). The only thing preventing this is silly vanity.

I actually haven't had much trouble finding clothes. When I was anorexic, I was a size 0 everywhere. Now I am a four, or even a six in a couple stores. It seems like the places I go are pretty consistent (Like the Gap, Old Navy or American Eagle). I don't see what the big deal is, because a 4 usually fits. It may be slightly bigger or smaller depending on the store, but what's this nonsense about wearing a size 2 when you're really a size 8 or 10? That has never happened to me. Maybe that happens more at expensive stores?
My fours may not really be fours, but they fit, and so I don't care.

Why can't we just have waist/hip sizes like men's clothes? That '12' or '10' on my clothes doesn't mean anything. I bought a pair of size 12 pants I can't button but I can slide into another pair of size 8 perfectly fine.

I am going to start making some of my clothes, because it's hard to find good clothes fit for 8/10/12/14 size. All the plus size clothes are cut right, but are too big, and all the misses size clothes are cut for people with tiny hips and thighs, just added a few more inches to the fabric.

I didn't know there was a name for this ridiculousness. But I've had it I'm not sure if I'm a 12 or a 10 or a 14 for that matter.

JB said:
I think a lot of heavier women feel that they sweated blood to lose the weight and get down past a certain size, and they never want to wear it again. Given the known variation in women's sizes, it may be irrational -- it makes a lot of sense to say "ignore the tag, it's the fit that counts" -- but once you fit into a 12 when you used to be a 22, i[...]

JB, I hear you. Although I buy it in a larger size, I also have the insecurity from it, the whole "I wonder if I gained and that is why I'm back in this size" fear. I know it is irrational, but I admit that I have to get the tape measure out when I get home and then compare my measurements to a standard sizing chart to make sure the item was mistagged. I'm not that cool and evolved either.

Anon, I've had the random size thing happen a lot, and it is usually in lower-price stores, not expensive ones. In expensive stores (which I go to maybe once a year, cause I'm cheap) I can pick out any 6 and know that it will fit. But in a mass retailer (something like H&M) or smaller but equally cheap stores, there are no reliable sizes. I'll often try on 3, even 4 different sizes for one single item. You can walk in a store wearing last year's size 4 purchased there, and pick out an 8 that won't fit and a 2 that will. It is insane. Also, what S, M, and L mean varies from store to store. Some say that S = 2 and 4, M = 6 and 8, L = 10 and 12; some say it is S = 00 and 0, M = 2 and 4, L = 6 and 8, and so on.

Andrea, I hear you. Aside from the fact they cut more stuff in misses now than in women's, I'm having some age-related issues with clothes too. It seems that most things I see are either made for 15 year olds or for 60 year olds, both in cut and in style. There isn't a lot of stuff out there that isn't too cutesy or shows too much skin, and yet doesn't look like the Golden Girls would wear it (you know, elastic waist pants, matching tunic in a big floral print).

I feel the need to point out here that even the size charts released by manufacturers are wrong, wrong, WRONG. Banana Republic's size chart indicates that I should wear a 4 in pants and skirts, however when I try things on, the 4 is falling off of me and I need a 0. The size chart says a 0 is a 24" waist and my waist is 26". It's total madness!

The British Standards Institute is attempting to correct this problem using BS-EN-13402, a standard which calls for a pictogram and actual measurements in centimeters. These new labels will be intelligible everywhere except in the USA, which has not made the switch to metric. I have been ready for the new labelling since 1983, when I began using metric for my body measurements, and 20 years before the new standard was drafted.

jj- i completly agree with you...
when ever you try to order clothes acording to easurement they're like never right. I like to buy clothing in kids sizes sometimes because unlike clothing made for us teens the fabric is actually warm... so like in some catalogs a girls size 16 will fit me but acording to the chart i should fit a like 8 or 10 in KIDS.
Also wedding apparal stores are the worst my eldest sister is getting married and her dress is an "8" and i mean this lovingly but she is deffinantly not an 8. my other sister's and my brides maids dress are zeros and un yeah we're like 4's so yes...

I have trouble in a lot of stores finding things that are small enough, or cut correctly. I just eye it to see if something will be the right size for me. I don't really bother with looking for a number.

I get really upset when nothing is cut right for my body type, or when the "extra small" size is too big- but only in the one shirt I want. I buy underwear and bras from the children's section.

I hate shopping because of it. I'll end up crying after an hour of trying on 15 pairs of pants and 10 different shirts and having not ONE of them fit right.

I shop in the juniors section in department stores for slacks because I have narrow hips, so most things in the women's department doesn't fit. For example, the waist fits, but there's too much room in the rear. I'm also just over 5'2", so even the "Short" fit slacks have about 6 inches of extra fabric at the bottom.

Don't get me started on tops. Anything cute or trendy is made for girls with huge chests. I don't fill out any of the tops I try on.

It's hard because I have to spend more money at stores that carry sizes that fit my body type, like H&M and The Limited, in addition to money spent getting things tailored.

This is why I like jewelry better than clothes. Diamonds flatter everyone. No worries about size. Actually, the bigger, the better, right? :)

It's just all a numbers game...it really is the fit that counts.

Jessie, I have every pair of pants I buy hemmed. It is a given. I have the store do it if they do it for free, or I do it myself.

Mia, do you think that fitting an 8 kids even with the consideration that sizes are now bigger could be remotely normal? You really need help. Also you're looking for warmer clothes cause you don't even have enough weight to keep a normal temperature anymore.

I have to say I am amazed at all the thin people that are reading and responding to this blog. So many of you seem to be size 4 or below. I'm plus and while I would like to lose weight I don't care about size as long as it fits. The hard part about plus is it's not widely available. It is interesting to see the problems that thin people have as I never thought they had any at all. Women's clothes are certainly not standard sizing and never had been even before the vanity sizing started. I try to get what looks best and not worry about the size. Weight loss can be monitored on the scale better than in the wardrobe.

Jan, I don't know Mia, but just fitting into children's sizes and being cold doesn't necessarially mean someone has a problem. I wear a children's size 12 in some things and I'm at a perfectly healthy weight and size (BMI: 22). I was always cold back when I wore a women's size 14, some of us just don't have good internal heaters.

Quig, I'm really friggin short. And I'm only a size 0 below the waist, I still take a 6 in tops because I'm broad shouldered. I wear petite sizes (

jj, I admit that her pro-bulimia screen name influences my perception of why she is fitting in children's size 8...

As for sizes, I'm 5'1" myself, so being around a 6 (on both top and bottom) is nowhere near skinny for me. My BMI right now is 24.5. When it was 22, I thought I was too thin cause size 4 was baggy on my butt. I'm big boned, so it is best to stay at the higher end of the spectrum.

Jan, oh hey, pro-bulemia screen name... I actually missed that. I'm useless before my morning coffee.

I'm another petite woman that has had a terrible time finding age appropriate clothing for the last few years. I'm 5' 1" and about 103 lbs (48 yrs old). The misses petite departments usually start at size 6 (which is apparently now marked as a size 2 ??).

I used to wear a size 4, then all of a sudden I was wearing size 2 (without losing any weight, mind you). The size 2 was terribly hard to find around here. Well guess what, now the size 2's are too big!

The manufacturers have literally sized small women off the charts. When they increased the size of clothing (vanity sizing), they did not give any forethought as to what small women would wear. I've now been given a choice of NOTHING.

Anna, it is terrible. I guess you're stuck with buying stuff at places that offer free alterations.

Well, I am a size 4 on top and an 8-12 on bottom. I have found the sizing charts for most boutiques are pretty good. However, dresses are absolutely impossible to find. There is also the consideration that women are all shaped differently. I have a very curvy backside, and small chest. Pants may have the same hip measurement, but be size for wider hips and a smaller backside, rather than thinner hips with a lot of junk in the back.

Mark said:
Size 00 isn't new--other stores have it. But just because they call it 00 doesn't mean it's small. It just means that for the particular line they needed to accommodate a smaller size. My wife wears anything from 0 to 6, depending on the brand, but we found a 00 blouse last year that was clearly too big for her. It's just that the store's normal cl[...]

In response to Anna, I think stores are starting to level off in terms of how they determine certain sizes, but it is SO frustrating how you can never really pinpoint what size you actually are these days. My mom used to wear a size 6 in everything, but in recent years, a 6 swallows her so she's down to a 2. She is the same size and weight she's always been, and she can still wear the size 6's she has in her closet from years ago. The problem is the growing size of our population as a whole, so in order to cater to everyone, popular stores have to adjust their sizes or else they would lose big bucks. I have to get nearly everything I own altered because I can't find clothes small enough to fit me. Even clothes classified as "petite" fit funny or are big in all the wrong places. We need to do like the Europeans do and base sizes on inches rather than a general number which varies from store to store.

Anna, I recommend J.Crew. I am in your same boat at 5'2" and 105, and it is miserable finding clothes that look professional and fashionable at the same time. J.Crew offers free alterations in store, and I their petit line is generally pretty good. J.Crew is fabulous because their clothes are mostly made for slender people so everything just fits right. And if it doesn't fit right, the free alterations are great too! Hope that helps!

I found this website looking for some help with an eating disorder that I have. I have read quite a few of the comments in this area, personally I am at the moment trying to ignore my size and am trying to eat properly unfortunately it is extremely hard when most of what I read either in magazines or on the internet is that you should be small size fourteen seems to be far to large for most people now. Unfortunatly not all lables on clothes are right. I also read that it was the families that were to blame for eating disorders, well my parents never knew about my eating disorder and they will never know. Basically no matter what eating disorder you have you are on your own and you have to do your best to get over it yourself. Most of what I have read on this web page seems to be ok.

Marina, may I recommend www.something-fishy.org
It is a great site, focused on recovery. You've done the hardest part already, which is knowing you need help.

I accept the fact that I will NEVER be skinny, thats ok! I sturggled with my weight for years and then poof after my sweet swixteen party I had the cutest little curvy muscular body. Of course I didnt think so at the time! I was btw a 6 and an 8, depending on where I was shopping. But generally, almost everything I tried on looked amazing! I stayed that way for almost 4 years and then I get diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis, a year later some weird ineteraction with medication and my 4'11 cheerleader body balloons to almost 200 hundred pounds. Thank god I am curvy, atleast my weight gets distributed to all the right places!

Problem is I cannot find any new clothing! I basically live in black yoga pants and my university hoodie. I am too big to fit into the regular sizes BUT I am also too small for the plus sizes. I can barely get into a woman's size 16 and then I got to Lane Bryant and I am literally swimming in their size 14!!!

This sizing issue is a little ridiculous! size 0-? should be consistent with ALL clothes in ALL stores in ALL states!!!!! Even when I was tiny I had a hard time finding pants small enough for my waist and big enough for hips and NOW I cant find ANYTHING!! I actually had to cancel an interview because I could not find suitable business wear for myself.

Sometimes I just want to forget about lawschool and go into the fashion industry just for people like me!!!