Fat is a Class Issue?

I have often wondered why fresh fruit and vegetables aren't subsidised to make them cheaper, and junk food taxed to the point where it becomes unaffordable except as a rare treat.

I personally don't like the government telling me what I can or can't do/say/eat either, however, it irks me more that my tax money(I live in New Zealand where hospital treatment is pretty much free) is being wasted on lazy fat-a**es who can't be bothered to cook/eat properly, and therefore are getting sicker and sicker and becoming a burden on an already stretched health system. When people with genuine(ie. not self-inflicted) illnesses need a hospital bed, they have to wait.

Another thing I don't understand is that it is ok to up taxes on tobacco and alcohol, because we all know that they aren't good for you and cause health problems which in turn drain our health resources. It is also ok to badger people about their habit and force them to get help, yet it is un-PC to harrass obese people eating at McDonalds 5 times a week, because it might hurt their feelings, or they "might" have a gland disorder that we don't know about(I am aware that gland disorders are very real for a lot of people, but it is often used as an excuse)

In my opinion smoking cigarettes and living off junk food are the same thing and should be treated as such. Rant over. Bring on the junk-food tax hikes!!!

I've read a number of articles showing how smoking is inversely related to education. While that may be true, I can't imagine how weight would be related to intelligence. I think that's a bit of a stretch.

This is pretty dumb carm. Obesity is like putting having a drug addiction and smoking problem together, not just one. Processed foods are flooded with things to get one addicted to this stuff, and mix that in with the reality that there is obviously a psychological reason to overeat (one as strong as a drug addiction) and you get the point. As for income, this matter with the type of food u buy and can affect the overeating but it is stupid to believe it when u got guys like Karl Rove looking like a balloon. If we start allowing everyone to say 'hey ur fat' to the obese then I think we should also be allowed to say and overhumilate the idiots all over the planet by saying something terrible to...cause God knows these morons all around here and there are driving me over the edge. You want to talk about a problem, now there's a real problem. I just bought something that cost $2.15, I gave u a $10, don't look around when the cash register doesn't work properly, u F#ucking Idiot. Sorry, but Obese people have not made my day terrible unlike plain Idiots countlessly have. Unfortunately, those same idiots are the ones that think fixing something like obesity is simple and similar to fixing smoking. They also don't realize that the drug war has not worked, this has been proven through histroy.

If you readers don't mind me taking up this space, I certainly feel like ranting. Are we veering off tack because there were so many vairables brought up straight from the original fat/education post that led me here. Why can't people address one issue at a time, to brain storm for an answer? If the well educated scientists and doctors can't always agree and contradict and debase case studies why does education become an answer to changing obesity? I agree being informed about food values and preventive measures for wellness are a plus but also good for the thin person too. I think obesity is the least tollerated malady and the least liked minority (which is growing in populaiton.) You will find enemies in all groups of people but you rarely find obese or fat people like me who dislike each other because of their weight, there is empathy. Sorry, if I was out of line.

It's more than junk food being cheap in some poorer neighborhoods there is no groceries avable and their choice is convenient store or fast food. They have to keep their kids in doors.

Smaller kitches and less time.
Poor people have less access to spend time with their kids making family meals. Having family meals is a key to healthier families.

There are ray of hope store like aldi’s and save a lot are getting better food to people.

"Obesity is directly related to lower education and lower incomes."

I have noticed that poor neighborhoods have a higher saturation of fast food joints than upscale areas of a city.

A low-income family is not likely to shop at a health food store or upscale markets such as Whole Foods. Hence, they run a greater chance to purchase foods that are usually responsible for weight gain.

Education is a tricky one, but assuming that a higher education affords more expensive, better food choices, it seems reasonable that it plays an important role.

On another hand, better food choices do not have to be expensive. However, many people do not seem be spending much time cooking at home. Thus, a low-income person seems likely to choose a fast food joint rather than a good restaurant.

I think to make fun of people who are poor is so snobby.

My husband's family are farmers and my husband grew up dirt poor. My mother in law made frugal decisions about food...she didn't buy junk food, soda, or a lot of processed foods. They planted a garden every year and canned a lot. Plus, they were very active doing farmwork all day. So, I don't think being poor makes it difficult to be thin but being lazy does. There are lots of rich fat people out there that buy EZ mac or pot pies because they are "easier" than grilling a piece of chicken and making a salad.

I have to add to my original post that I don't believe that obesity is linked to education or wealth, that is just too simplistic. I see around me all the time people on middle incomes who are in debt up to their eyeballs buying things that they don't need(tv's, stereos, another car), while complaining that they don't have the money to buy good food. Are they poor? Definitely not. Stupid? I don't think so, I would say more worried about keeping up with the neighbours. Fat? Yep, nine times out of ten.

"What about laziness?" I would like to see people able to buy a quality, affordable takeout version of (b). Maybe taxes based on nutritional values? The poorer the nutritional value the higher the taxes? Might put McD's out of business yet.

>To say that fat folks are too stupid is one heck of >a judgment call.

but I agree with this opinion... the demographics speak for it... it's about education and not believing the brain-washing media that tell us about "good and delicious burgers" ... (same applies to presidents, wars, governments, medical/health industry btw)

>In that case why are certain airhead celebrities so thin?

Well, those airhead celebs do have an armada of people around them with GREAT education... expensive people just hired to take care of the celebs... the celebs don't eat when or what they want but what those advisor tell them...

cheers, delilah

I think there may be something to this.

I am a lawyer. I am around people who are fairly wealthy and highly educated. However, none are obese and/or even slighlty overweight.

Our secretaries, however, weigh more. One is morbidly obese.

With the education and wealth, there is a stigma towards being fat. I have felt this more so since I have been making more money due to those around me. This is, however, not to say less educated or poorer people do not feel the same stigma.

Also, having more money means we can afford Whole Foods. When I am being "lazy", I get some poached salmon there as opposed to McDonalds. The money affords healthier options. It also affords better gyms and a trainer.

To say that there may not be a correlation is ignoring the realities. It isn't being snobby.

Funny enough, though, one would think more money would mean fatter people- more money, more tasties. This may be the case for some people, but it hasn't been for me. Perhaps it is due to the strange group I am in- young urban professional in a big city.

"...if over-processed, over-refined food and junk food were to become expensive while healthy fresh food became cheap — the opposite of the case today — people would be forced to eat well. This could be done through taxes or subsidies. Alternatively, you could ration unhealthy food."

This writer is advocating re-inventing humanity. Hold not thy breath.

Chloe: Who said healthy food had to be expensive? There are lots of cheap healthy foods that you DON'T have to buy at Whole Foods. I live in a small town that doesn't have a Whole Foods but we do have Aldi. I can buy a bag of salad greens for 80 cents, a bag of spinach for $1, a pound of carrots for 70 cents, bananas for 33 cents/pound, skim milk for $2 a gallon, and eggs for 59 cents a dozen. All these foods regularly appear in my shopping cart and require maybe a little bit of effort to prepare, but still...eating healthy can be cheap. And there are some healthy options at fast food places, but most people complain that salads are "rabbit food" or whatever. I'm a very educated person and so's my husband and we know what's healthy and what isn't. I think the link between obesity and education is stronger than the link between obesity and poverty. Because there are still people out there that believe that just because jellybeans are fat free, they are a "healthy" candy. Or that a chicken sandwich at a restaurant is automatically "healthier" than a burger, even if it's slathered in mayo.

To ThinkOffTheFat: stop being such a doormat! You don't have to apologise for "taking up space" in a public forum where anyone can post. You apologised twice in one paragraph. Check out your self-esteem issues as a possible cause of any weight issues you might have...

I have to side with Spectra on this. Many people are poorly educated about nutrition. It's not hard though to eat healthy. Just eat a balanced diet of natural foods. Is this the best diet ever? Maybe not, but at least you'll be better off than most. The fact is, no one really knows what the human body needs to work optimally. We can only make guesses based on observation.

When I say natural foods, I mean foods that are as close to their natural state as possible. For example, an apple is natural. Unsweetened apple sauce is less natural, regular apple sauce is less natural than that, and finally apple pie is the worst form of an apple.

Also, don't be so quick to avoid those fats. The no-fat craze is probably one of the worst things that happened to us nutritionally. Fats and cholesterol are needed for hormonal production, basic cellular-level health, and many other things. However, pick natural fats. Also, for cooking, use saturated and monounsaturated fats. It turns out it's better for you to cook in butter or lard than it is to cook in canola oil or margarine.

Eat fats in meat, fish, milk, and eggs. Use extra virgin olive oil, butter, or lard for cooking. Avocados and natural peanut butter are also good fat sources. Finally, for your Omega-3's, you may want to consider cold-pressed flaxseed oil. Avoid margarine, vegetable oil, canola oil, and corn oil.

I agree Spectra. I am wondering if this study controlled for education/income. Perhaps it's not *income* that's linked to obesity, but rather education (and educated people just happen to have higher incomes).

I would like to point out, though, that "ignorant," as quoted in the article, does not necessarily mean "stupid." The most common definition of "ignorant" is uneducated. So, perhaps the author was try to say that overweight folks are lacking the education necessary to make smart food choices--whether it be a formal education or self-education.

I tend to think it has more to do with whether or not someone *wants* to learn about nutrition. Really... to cut through the hype requires a lot of digging, research and reading. Not everyone cares enough to make that kind of effort, thus making them "ignorant" about nutrition.

How many people live on a farm? The majority of people live in big cities. If your neighborhood is full of fast food joints and you have a low income that is where you eat.

It is sad but true that poorer people are heavilier than people with more money. I don't know if healthy food is expensive but fast food is very cheap and easy.

It is more expensive and time consuming to prepare and eat a wholefoods type diet with fresh produce and good quality protein.

Carbs are cheap, have a long shelf life in the stores, and the profit margin is huge.

Spectra-

For me, healthy food is expensive. I only buy organic, including meats and dairy. You can eat healthfully without doing so, but I personally cannot.

I am glad to see you are a fan of Aldis. We do not have any near us. Is their stuff organic? The eggs seem so cheap to me. I know I can get regular for 79 cents or so, but I try to buy organic free range/cage free.

Maybe I am just a northeast liberal arts educated democrat lawyer tree hugger-- ;) but all organic = healthy to me. The hormones and other additives scare me, especially as I enter into my most likely child rearing years.

Best to all.

Dollar for dollar, fast food is not cheaper than eating healthy.

Clearly people who regularly eat fast food are not concerned about eating organic.

A small chicken, a few sweet potatoes and a bag of frozen broccoli can feed a family of 4 one meal (plus enough leftovers for soup) for about $8. You'd be lucky to get a two fast food meals for that price.

Vegans and some others certainly like to scare you with the "hormones and other additives", but does it really make a difference?

I am personally a fan of organic produce, because it's more nutritionally dense. I like free range eggs because they don't carry salmonella and so I can eat them raw without worry. Also, grass-fed beef has a better Omega-3 to Omega-6 ratio (yes, beef has your Omega fats). However, they can get really expensive.

The real question is, how contaminated does the food really get, and what percentage of those things does our stomach even absorb? Most sources don't really address these issues. At the same time, I've seen a lot of athletes that eat conventional animal products their whole lives. It doesn't stop them from being healthy, strong, and having way more vitality than most.

As a microbiologist at a food plant, I can tell you exactly how contaminated food is and the answer is: not as bad as people tell you. We screen all the foods we use for any/all toxic organisms and if there are ANY present at all, we don't release it and we do a recall. Most food-borne pathogens are a result of poor handling and poor hygiene on the part of the consumer (consider that most bacteria responsible for food poisoning are found in feces).

I don't buy "organic" most of the time because it is so expensive. I'll give you an idea of how expensive it is: organic oranges have more vitamin C per ounce than regular oranges but regular oranges have more vitamin C per dollar of price. So yeah, organic food may be more nutrient dense, but that does come at a premium. Since I eat a diet high in fruits and vegetables, I'm not too concerned about nutrient shortages there. As far as pesticide treatments go, organics aren't usually sprayed but you can wash all pesticides off regular produce by washing it with a solution of baking soda and water (mix it in a spray bottle, mist it on, rinse off in water).

Don't forget that organic doesn't always mean healthy. It's another example of nutritional ignorance...I knew a guy who ate only organic and he weighed 340 lbs. Why? Because he ate organic mac and cheese, organic granola, organic meat, organic ice cream, etc. Not always healthy choices! I think eating organic is great, it's just not something I do because I don't feel it's worth it to spend the extra money. I do, however, have a garden and I try to grow my own produce whenever possible. And as soon as we buy our house, I'll be able to have my chickens! That way, I'll have all the cage free chickens/free range eggs/etc. that I want. Also, whenever we can, we buy a quarter cow from some friends with a beef farm. We know the cattle are grass fed and they sell us the beef extremely cheaply. I guess maybe I'm just creative, but there ARE ways to eat healthy and cheap.

And yeah, fast food is probably the biggest rip in the world...$5 buys you a burger and some fries and a soda if you're lucky. And an hour later, you feel like crap. For $5 I can make a big pot of split pea soup that will feed us dinner for a week. Eating out is a major cost when it comes to food-spending.

Spectra: Thanks. It's good to hear that from an insider. I'll remember the baking soda trick. I usually only buy organic when the price difference is slight. I occasionally splurge for raw milk though, just because it tastes so darn good. What I really meant above is I support the idea of organic.

My diet runs a tad on the expensive side, but only because it's heavy in beef. The rest of it is eggs, milk, fruits, veggies, yams, and whole grains (brown rice, steel-cut oats, etc), which all run fairly cheap. Intelligent cooking is definitely cheaper than eating out.

I come from a poor family--- the foods you get from people free--- bad for you junk foods. They store well. The cheapest foods at the store--- junk foods.

Ramen noodles are like 10-c a piece.

I eat healthfully now (it is a priority for me) and the fresh fruits and vegetables are FAR more expensive than most the processed crap.

I've also noticed a problem... people working two jobs, enough money to get certain stuff... but what's the easiest to do in the little time they have?

I also drive extra to go to the nice store-- in the low-income area I live, healthy options are cut down, and the fruits/veggies are in far worse shape.

Class definately can make a difference.

I think that in general, poorer people need to work longer hours just to make ends meet. In addition the jobs they work tend to be more labor intensive and physical. So at the end of a long day, they're exhausted and drained. Now when you've got several mouths to feed and very little money, it's really hard to pass up fast food as a quick alternative to cooking a meal.

In addition, I think that all the fast food marketing targets lower income groups.

I'm infuriated that someone is seriously proposing that our obesity problem is due to the "stupidity" of poor people. This is the last thing overweight people need to hear.

I've had it up to my neck with this stigma that surrounds overweight people, that their just oo stupid and lazy to be thin. Ugh!

A year ago I was working a nice 9 hour a day job. It was hard work, and the commute was long. But I still had time to excercise and eat right when I got home. I lost 30 lbs last year.

This year I switched to a lower paying job where I have to work longer hours, with a longer commute. In addition, I'm volunteering 4 extra hours after work each day to get experience for grad school. I barely manage to sleep 4 hours a night let alone cook. So I've been eating more fast food because it's easy and the last thing I need in addtition to the stress from my insane schedule is to stress out even more about food. All the weight that I worked so hard to lose came back.

In today's fast paced society I think a lot of people fall into similar situations. People regularly work 12 hour days and 7 days a week. People are not obese because of laziness!

I live in a wealthy area and my son and daughters are always going on playdates
so we are in many homes over time. Parents here just "nuke" frozen foods for the kids, nuke popcorn, nuke prepared kiddie frozen meals, or take the kids to a fast food joint. When the play date is at my house, the kids get real food, and healthy snacks--and they eat it up--no pickiness! I feed my kids a good meal (usually one of their favorites) before they go to someone else's house, so they don't feel they must snack heavily when they get there. Although they do get sugary juice boxes and candy there. It isn't the poor who are uneducated or unable to afford wise choices-- my neighbors will buy the cheapest cold cuts for their kids and then go to an art auction and buy some artwork 'they kind of like--it is an investment!' ' for ten grand. The kids are attending the best schools and eating junk. I think we should all rethink what an investment is.

Lots of very , very good points in the above posts.

Sadly, when generalising about educated/non-educated people and obesity/laziness, there is a clear trend. Of course there are exceptions but generalisations, like cliches, are based on cold, hard, fact or clear trends.

People who are "ignorant" about food, through shortcomings in their school education, or indeed their own self-education are generally going to tend towards obesity. This is because they simply dont know what types of food they should eat, when and in what quantities. Personally I blame the government and educational authorities for extremely poor levels of education in such areas in compulsory education from kindergarden up to and including college level, there are generally compulsory classes in such irrelevancies as religious education rather than constructive subjects such as food and nutrition etc. I also blame the government for allowing such appalling filth on the market such as many, many fast food restaurants and other products which can be readily purchased from any stores. Many should be outlawed or banned and replaced with healthier alternatives. I like the idea of taxing poor, processed foods and using this to subsidise making fruit, veg and healthier options cheaper. Idealistic but a nice and ultimately workable idea, albeit potentially a little "draconian" for some.

There is absolutely no excuse for eating fast food to excess on a regular basis, it is categorically NOT cheaper as many of the intelligent and informed posts above have easily demonstrated and nor is it quicker. It is simply lazy. I can make a cooked "quick snack" of approximately 40/40/20 carbs/protein/fat in well under 10 minutes and it will cost less than £1. Please bear in mind I know nothing about cooking, but a reasonable ammount about WHAT to eat and in what quantities and when. This is all self taught due to the embarassingly lacking ammount of education i was offered during my expensive 10 year private school and college education. Being expensively educated has nothing to do with obesity or laziness, however being at least marginally intelligent OR motivated and having self esteem does.

To summarise, ignorance and laziness are the route cause of obesity and not wealth or lack thereof.

Spectra - thanks for the tip about the baking soda mist for produce, I had wondered if there was a way to make sure pesticides were completely removed before eating=)

Love the baking soda mist idea, thanks.
On the subject of cheap fast food and expensive healthy food: the people, if you notice, that say that healthy food is cheaper, are not from the states. Adam Lincoln says about his quick snack "it will cost less than £1" . obviuosly if he is talking currency in pounds, then he isnt living in the US. Well sure, when I lived in Spain, eating healthy was much cheaper, and easy to do. the lifestyle in the United States is SO not the same, especially if you dont live on the coast. When i lived in Spain, we ate seafood, and fresh meat and vegetables, you go to the market to buy your food...etc etc. Every country I have ever lived in EXCLUDING the US, I would say is much cheaper and easier to eat healthy and not fast food. As a matter of fact, you dont even have to try to diet, you just eat better. you walk alot more, you do physical things , outside things. Not so in the states...instead we drive everywhere, sit on the couch, work til we are exhausted. Outside of the US, alot of moms actually are able to stay at home and cook meals, so families arent eating take out food as often. I live in the states, and i must say that after working and picking up the kids, its a struggle to come home and cook a healthy meal.
Ok i may have deviated a bit, but my point is that in the US, its a different way of living, its much more difficult and expensive to eat healthy.
(and love the idea that we would tax more the fast food/junky food and subsidize the healthy food, what a concept)

I'd have to say I agree on the cheap healthy eating being easier out of the country. I was in Central America where you can buy 2 kilos of bananas for a buck. Or a head of lettuce for 50 cents. And processed food is not as widespread and convenient. I definitely think buyers of healthy food should get some sort of government money to help out...that'd be great!