Good Vibrations

Here is one scientific study to support the efectiveness of whole body vibration therapy:

Link

Barbara

I have seen a few questions on this site asking about the differences between the "Pivitol" and the "lineal" vibration machines, but unfortunatly i still haven't seen a satisfactory answer from anybody incl Lloyd who at least has tried, but that web site he recommended is a total waste of time.

Anyway my theory is that pivitol machines like the galileo from germany, (which by the way for those of you who are interested is the machine that most of the research into vibration training was carried out on) is probably the best form of vibration training available today, but unfortunatly for the rest of the vibration machine manufacturers (incl Lloyd) the system is patended and therefore only lineal machines are being developed by most manufacturers, i say most because i know there are one or two company's out there making pivitol machines similar to the galileo, but im not sure why if the galileo is under patent like it claims!!

Anyway thats why i think the question about which is best "Lineal or Pivitol" keeps being dodged, but what do i know ! But if there is anyone out there who can give a honest and un-biased view i would be very glad to hear it, Thanks .

I am thinking of purchasing a WBV to prevent bone loss. For home use, would the Vibra Fit or the Soloflex be a better buy?

Soloflex or Vibra Fit?

(1) Philip, Yes a decent model should help with weight loss , tone etc.. But the golden rule is , no matter how good the model , you will eventually platau. The better the model though , the longer time this will take ( from what i have seen Cheap = 2 Months , Quality = 8+months ) .
Vibration Training may break some of the old rules of exercise but unfortunatly not this one.
" ALL TRAINING SHOULD BE EVOLUTIONARY."

(2) Bob , Pivital VS Lineal

The only reason Pivital has been researched more is because the Galileo was the first machine "gifted" to universities for research as a marketing tool. This in no way tells us which is better.

I have a list of 27 Pivital models available at present. So i believe any patient Galileo may have had , is not worth the paper it is printed on.

I have developed both Pivital and Lineal machines but are not using Pivital yet for practical reasons. I have never once said one is better . Instead it is pure " marketing " and not scientific in any way, to even try and compare one to the other.
As they have almost nothing in common. The fact is a perfect physio/sports studio would have both.

(3) And to Brenda, either of those units would be fine for the reasons you give. I would go on price and availability of warranty/repairs.

I would also like to add, if anybody does think of purchasing a Pivital machine , Galileo/Vibra-Flex is the brand to go for. Do not buy a cheap asian model. They will break.

I'm needing to build my hip bone before hip replacement surgery, and afterwards. I can't afford the $1k, let along $10k+ units talked about here. I notice a unit called "vibra-fit" (not Vibra-flex, if there is such a thing) for $399. It advertises ~30hz which is good, but force applied is 0.3g, which seems a little underpowered to me. Can anyone comment on whether 0.3g is useful for bone-building?
Also, is this one of the much-maligned "chinese" units I'm seeing referred to here?

0.3 gs is enough for a bone density increase , in fact the g rating does not need to be "through the roof " for a machine to do that required task.
Even a cheaper asian model will do this for you. The quality may reduce the lifespan of the unit though.

This is obviously a novice question ... but for the better, more well rounded benefits, isn't a wider base plate necessary - ruling out the only recommended personal unit? Also, since with a platform vibration only the body from the waist down gets any kind of good workout isn't it stretching it to call it whole body vibration at this point? Moving into the combining of regular exercise machines with vibration will remedy this but these may be years off - no? Is it better to wait for such rather than invest such large sums in relatively limited machines at the moment?

Yes you are correct, but true WBV training units are available , i know i designed them , and we have then in our studos. Unfortunatly alot of companies have been premature in using the name WBV , not really being dishonest , just slight lack of understanding. And lacking a better marketing term.

First of all: ~TEAM LLOYD~!!! You taught me a lot thru this 5 page blog!

Second: I want to buy a personal one, but I live in Central America. Any ideas on where to purchase one here?

Can anyone compare the value of jumping on a trampoline versus using the Soloflex or other therapuetic (vs. training) machine for its effects on building bone? The rebounding also brings gravity to bear on muscles and bones.
Barbara

Hotzing...Thanks for the support.
Go to www.wholebodyvibes.com and e-mail them. Their personal version has a good rep.

Barbara.... Yes rebounding does induce a similar effect. But still requires a voluntary reflex to induce a respose, is much slower( approx 2 movements a second as opposed to apporox 40 ) , and does not cause " fight or flight ".

It mainly uses rebalancing responses which is only %40 of the desired effect.

Injury is more likely due to longer stretch reflex and uncontrolled actions.

But the cardio is better. Due to the involuntary reflex action and wider range of muscle use.

6 of 1. Half a dozon of the other ????

Thanks Lloyd!! I will be in touch with them!! BTW, is their personal machine for therapy, training, or both? I want training.....

Its for Therapy/Training.

Hallo LIoyd Shaw

i have read all of the forum and i can say that its very ineresting . But i have some questions.

Finally which machine is best for training ?
Whats the difference between galileo and galileo 2000 ?
The vertical vibraions do affect the head of the user ?

Thanks

My considered opinion, based on using Power Plate and a couple of home units is that, for me - I'm a 58yo male and lead a sedentary life (read VERY unfit)- any sort of exercise is beneficial.

I take on board all the comments expressed by the experts here, but I believe that since my sole goal is personal therapy, any of the home units will be fine for my needs. I just enjoy getting back the joy of life and getting off hypertension tabs daily. I have no need to spend lots of money when a $350 machine will do what I need.

In short - horses for courses - anything is better than nothing.

Yes Rog , you are correct. A cheaper version for therapy is advised , as long as it has a valid warranty. Spending money on an overpriced vibrator for your usege would be a complete waste.

Or you could aways go jump on an old lawnmower.

To Jason,

A good Lineal Vibration machine is better for "training" purposes because of increased EMG activity.

The differences in the older Galileo and the 2000 are not clear other than a more aesthetic finish and i have heard better electronics. And is geared along more therapy/medical lines.

Yes Lineal vibration does effect the head alot more than Pivital ( Galileo/Vibra-Flex etc..)
Pivital is alot more natural and the transference into the lumbar is greatly decreased. ( Lineal is at its most dangerous at 38hz or below )

Never get the two mixed up.

I have the Soloflex WBV attached to the Soloflex and another one to the Rockit.

Compared to other vibration units, this is an economical way to get the benefits of vibration while using it with strength training. I have no specific way of measuring the benefits received from using the WBV over the last 6 months. However, I noticed that the pain in my lower back is dramatically reduced when using the Rockit with the WBV turned on for 10 to 20 minutes at a time. I intend on doing this more frequently as a stretching and pain preventive technique.

I have also found it relaxing to turn the vibration on while laying on the Rockit and just reading a book. I do use it for various stretching exercises on the Soloflex and find that it assists in the stretch. Even without substantial evidence of health benefits, the novelty of using the WBV keeps me interested enough to do various exercises on both machines.

If you already have a Soloflex, I would recommend getting the WBV attachment without buying the unit with the bench. This lowers the price and it complements the equipment that existing Soloflex users already have.

About the author

Rocky Romero is a Business owner and Business Coach and Entrepreneur. He is currently running marathons and staying in shape with strength training, using health clubs and the Soloflex Rockit.

Some more questions for Lloyd ... who else?!!

When speaking of, say, below or above 38hz for example, I'm getting the impression that the higher the more equal to massage? Am I way off here? Could you give some explanation about the number of vibrations = what amount/type of muscle strengthening for us dimwhits out here?

Another one - what type of warranty/repair should one look for in a good home training version? What are the most important elements to have the warranty extended for?

And, if possible, in this type of discussion, could you please give examples of how one does upper body training on a platform vibrating machine? Does one have to literally step off of the platform - or would a bigger platform (than the only recommended home version) be more conducive for such movements that would include the upper body?

Thanks so much for the help in understanding this newer kind of body mechanics!

i am intrested in buying a power plate fr my salon could you please help me? I AM SO AMAIZED ABOUT THE RESULTS AND I JUST WANT THE BEST FOR MY CLIENTS!!!!

Yes Kris, anything above 45hz would normally be considered a massage. Anything to high and the muscle finds it hard to respond. I consider the range of 38-45hz the best for good overall recruitment AND safety. The only time this does not work well is if the machine is unbalanced in its speed/mass/acceleration formula. That is why it is so important to get on a purpose built unit.

To use a platform for upper body you do not need a large area. The same rules apply as for legs.
Eg , Chest and arms ... go into a " half-way up half-way down" push-up position and hold.
Anything about a 40cm/80cm area seems to be fine for most people.

Hi

I have brought a power plate, i think it's great, although i don't think i am getting the most out off this machine as i don't know many off the exercie's i can do. please could you help me on this

thanks

lisa

Hello Lloyd Shaw

Please help! I am just hesitating between GALILEO et MAXUVIBE and i am completely lost. Which do u think is better for pivital vibration?

Christine....Galileo. Good company , good reputation.

A warning to Lisa , do not do any position you would consider extreme ( one legged squats etc..) to try and get more out of your machine. It is very unsafe.

Hallo
Yesterday i tried Galileo and i would like to share my experience.

First of all i felt my muscles hot after 4 secs of the starting of the session . I felt this feeling after 20-25 secs when i did a session with powerplate and fitvibe.
The Galileo was metallic and not plastic.
I trained my abs very well and it was the less noisy vibration machine i have ever used.
Until now i have used the Powerplate Next Generation , the Fitvibe excel pro and the Galileo Fitness and until now the Galileo was far more better the the other models.

To LLOYD SHAW.
1. The salesman of galileo told me that galileo doesn't have hand straps to train the upper body as powerplate and fitvibe . He also told me that the straps of powerplate and fitvibe are useless . What is your opinion about this ?
2. The salesman of galileo also told me than none of the WBV machines can not make hypertrophy to abs and to the rest of the upper body area. What is your opinion about this and what a WBV machine can do to the upper body.
3. Which is better machine for training Galileo or Pro-Elixe
Thanks for your great Help Lloyd Shaw

And somethong else.
4. What is your opinion about hypertrophy with WBV machines?
Can make muscle hypertrophy and at which muscle groups ?

Thanks.

To the forum.

Anyone who wants to read more scripts of Lloyd Shaw (our forum mentor) can click on http://blogcritics.org/archives/2006/08/30/221211.php
its worthy .

Yes the straps on machines are essentialy useless , due to the loss of pressure. I would consider them just a good warm-up.

I have machines designed for muscle hypertrophy. Upper and lower body. But they must be built to an exact equation, and it is not cheap.

And i would choose Galileo .

But a word of advice , if any salesman tries to tell you Pivital is better than Lineal or vice-versa walk away. If they lack the knowledge to understand why they shouldnt do this , they have no business selling you a machine.

Hi

Has anyone any experience or opinion with the VIBMAX machine
http://www.xendon.com/

Many thanks

Greg

No experience , but it seems like a good Therapy/Training model.
It is a shame the woman at the top of the website is in one of the worst poses i have seen for Triceps. It shows little understanding of how important positioning is on the plates.
Hands should be not be flat , can cause tendon problems.
Legs should be slightly bent to allow for back pressure release.

Thanks for the reply Lloyd
I bought a cheaper chinese machine from Holland,looked like it had a lot of good points to it but seriously I do not feel good on it
My back hurts and I have very little positive effect from it
Before buying this I tried some very expensive machines here in sweden and felt great after using them at a Gym
The whole vibration was much finer and I even had soreness in areas like I had done a large workout
I could feel the positive effect
The cheap machine is unfortunately not even close hence I am looking for something better as the nearest quality machine is 70 km from my home

Thanks again

greg

Lloyd:

Would you recommend this?

Ajustable speed i 9 steps – 21,6-33,3 Hz. size 57 x 45 x 122 cm.
Max user wieght 100 kg

http://www.halens.se/ProductPage.aspx?mid=2592&pid=019491

Intended use is for both therapy (wife has pain in back and achey legs) and training (i use crosstrainer for cardio and want a complement machine)

Thanks!

Greg:

What did you buy? (i also live in Sweden)

M

Lloyd:

Here is a site in english about that model. it's cheap......too cheap...?

http://shop.jomodofitness.com/Items/BM1500

Yes too cheap for a Trainer for yourself. But ok for your wifes Therapy. The fact you asked , means you already understand the difference.

Thanks Lloyd.

It's true that i understand that there is a difference in Training / Therapy capabilities in the machine, but what i don't understand is WHAT and WHERE the difference lies. Is it the speed variables? Is it the construction?

Why would one machine that is capable of delivering good therapuetic values (bone increase, hormonal affects) stop at delivering muscle development (and increased circulation, metabolism)

I think that quite a few here are interested in knowing this, so we would be happy to hear from you again on this subject!

Ok here goes, its all about machinics , bio-machanics and its relation to myotatic reflexs , rebalancing responses , involuntary reflexes and "fight or flight". The later being a final stage in the training realm.

The involuntary systems we use in Vibration Training use some or all of the above reflexs to gain a desired effect.

Essentially bio-machinics is an infinite physics equation ( you and how you move ) , with vibration pads trying to influence this equation through good old fashioned Newtons Law ( 3 part equation ).
A basic pad will use the mass/acc/ampltd equation to move you. You can play with any of the above figures to create a different respose. That is why changing the mass ( making something out of plastic ) will change the results from the same machine made of metal traveling at the same speed and amplitude.
This itself would be infinite exept for the limitations of the human body.

The machines are ( just like you ) a sum of all its parts, and a machine built without balance or exact purpose, cannot deliver the required force to induce a choosen response.
In fact a unit built unbalanced can be very dangerous. One of the reasons i dont like the new Power-Plate NG model , is it creates ( in their own advertising ) 3D movement. This causes a shearing action on the joints which has been proven to cause injuries.
I have seen some units so random , an old lownmower would be better suited.

So to recap , you have
(a) How fast the plate moves ,HZ
(b) How far it moves , AMPL
(c) How much mass is being moved.

Simple stuff , simple differenses , with simple results.

But to make this clear, that in no way accounts for your bio-machinics. The least complicated unit i have produced so far ( The Bullet ) , is a 9 part equation that allows for more bio-responses. Is safer but much harder.

Hope this helps a bit.

Has anyone used the personal model of the Hypergravity? And could you give your impressions and results? thanks.

P.S. also ... where could one find illustrations of the type of poses that one should use on the personal unit (at home) for training?

Lloyd:

you rock.

THX!