Good Vibrations

Before everyone gets all worked up over vibration exercise, check out this study on trained sprinters that showed NO MARKED IMPROVEMENT as to their times, jump heights etc. while using WBV. PAGE 5

http://www.nsca-lift.org/Perform/Issues/0502.pdf#search=%22Belgium%20%20Sprinter%20Vibration%20training%20study%22

This is very telling. If no performance gains can be attained in elite athletes, how on earth does an amateur athlete or weekend warrior expect to benefit from these machines? If WBV is something you have your heart(not mind obviously after reading this study) set on, it would be best to look at units with greater amplitude than Lloyd's garage shop versions-or his Hypergravity poodle home model. The Power Plate is THE standard with greater amplitude than the copies, but also the maxuvibe I saw looks very interesting with a 12mm amplitude. This is important because without the extra amplitude, you'll be forced to do dynamic moves on the plate for any hope of performance gain....opening yourself to injury. Injuries do happen...static positions are the only way to go for safety. Higher amplitudes will allow for performance gain and keep you safe. I'm sure the next versions of Lloyd's units and Hypergravity will include these revisions....best to wait...or PowerPlate...even Maxuvibe.

KG, Your reference to amplitude. Do you mean vertical movement? I have followed this forum for nearly 6 weeks now and have learned a bit about the many different machines. Reading about the vibration training interested me enough to make my own unit. I bought a vibration motor from a industrial supply co. that puts out 450 lbs. of force and operates at 3450 vibes/min. This motor is intended for use as bolted to the bed of dump trucks to facilitate removal of gravel etc. Good power. I made my platform from a 2'x 3' piece of treadplate welded to a frame of 3" square channel. To the bottom directly I bolted the motor. At each corner a 3" x 3" solid rubber stud mount shock absorber anchored directly to the floor. The plate is good size so I can position myself well using weights and dumbells, stretching, etc. However, since I have no vertical movement, Static exercise does little more than vibrate the area in direct contact with the plate. Also, I am thinking of adding a rheostat to control the VPM on the motor. Slowing down will perhaps produce more movement. I will replace the solid vibration mounts with air dampened bellows type shock absorbers to obtain some vertical movement. Yet these are expensive @ $70 each and I cannot afford yet. With these modifications I believe I will have a well operating unit at around $1000 expended. So far I am pleased with the results for the money and effort spent.

Firstly ,doesnt the Hypergravity go up to 5 mm ? And the Power-Plate to 4mm ?

And KG , time to show us what you really know.

Amplitude is only 1 part of the 9 parts physics equation that makes up a basic lineal sports platform . And thats just partial bio-machinic. It jumps to 24 when you reach full bio-machinic.
I have 5 models with varying degrees of the formula. With another 4 to be released soon. All solid polished steel. With marine electronics. The motors themselves are $1800 each ( 2 per machine )

You can not just change one thing , like the amplitude and gain a better result KG. And the fact you are being that simplistic alarms me that you are even allowed near machines or people.

This also shows me you are still getting to grips with Newtons law , ( 3 part equation ) so you are so far behind its just funny.

And i am proud to have my own factory. At least i dont have to resort to buying my machine from the Chinese ( for about 800euro ). Designed by a car bumper moulderer out of plastic that had no history of Vibration Training. Thankyou.

Of couse this is a forum , and you can always come back with the basic 8 part formula to prove me wrong. But i wont hold my breath.

Lloyd,

Are you working on any machines that could offer vibration for the upper body? Could there be such a machine that would switch vibration from the lower plate after a period to some kind of higher plate with bars to hold or extensions to work out with?

Could someone Clarify Scott's question about amplitude?

TurboSonic the Mercedes of WholeBodyVibration. Transducer technology, not a reciprocating motor.

www.vibrahs.com

If anyone is still interested in Chinese version of Vibro Training machine - it is BodyVibe. There are only 3 types, but they are much cheaper than any other I have seen in comparison. The Professional is $2995, Personal is $995 and for Kidz is $635. You can buy them from Naturealm, US ph# 425-591-1031
I think they also sell VibroGym with discounts.

Kris we already have upper body workouts available , ( positive and negative contraction ). Check out the Vibra-Train series of machines on my website.

Hi

I life in California and have a chronic lower-backpain but not a lot of money. So I was wondering if there are really cheap models which will still decrease my backpain without being a waste of money.
I've read so many good things about them and it would be really nice if it would help me feel a bit better so I can actually have job again.

Where can I purchase a professonal machine from for a wellness centre?

HELP!

You have two companies to choose from depending on your needs. Try www.wavexercise.com or www.wholebodyvibe.com

hey all, we were about to order Powerplate fro home use yesterday, but after reading all this commemnts, we decided to think a little more abou it. right not, we are not sure if we should go with powerplate or hypergravity or some othr brand. another issue is finacing, does anyone knows if we could pay the price in 2 or 3 installmets. for help you can send an email to ellcohen@hotmail.com we live in D.C USA thanxx

Hello,

I am interested in buying a training vibration machine for professional use in Europe. I just started to do some research on powerplate and similar products and i am really lost. I have in fact two questions :

1. Is there any side effects for the users detected in so far ?

2. Do you know about a european product called PROELLIXE? As far I know, it is commercialized by an italian company PROMOITALIA and they say that because of the horizontal vibration it provides it doesn't have any side effects. (power plate provides vertical vibration).
It is true?
Can you please recommend me a professional product that is reliable?

Sorry in advance for the slew of questions for Lloyd: 1/Do you recommend the Wave for therapy, and the Hypergravity for training? 2A/What is positive and negative amplitude? (It seems to be whether the platform is dropping or raising, but I cant find a definition as applied to vibration training). 2B/What are different effect of positive and neagative amplitude? 3/Same for p &n contraction. (I know positive and negative's meaning when applied to movement, but not when applied to vibration training). 4/What -are- the nine principles of physics? 5/Can I set the Hypergravity home machine at a 'gentle' enough level to use with otherwise inappropriate subjects,(my father has an orthotic spacer-plate in his knee)? 6/Power Plate promotes their machines as vibrating in three planes,(up/down, left/right, back/forward), while others say this is a fault that PP didn't bother to correct. Is there anyhing wrong with back/forward, or left/right vibration? It seems at first glance that every direction of vibration would cause a useful reaction.

Questions for Lloyd should be directed to him on his vibratrain messageboard that accompanies his website. I say "should" only because that site does'nt allow users to chime in anymore....seems the questioning was'nt to Lloyd's taste....it is worth a look though...no not for his jr. high spelling attempts....just the slippery way he avoids direct questions, repeatedly.

And take a good look at Lloyd's commercial models. You'll see just why their deemed that as the bush league aesthetics are a horror.

Lastly when you read think about this....would you REALLY want to purchase a health and wellness product from someone who is a mortician(by Lloyd's admission!!) by trade????

Think about it folks.

To KG ,
Firstly , my forum is " read only " thanks to spammers and marketers. And i need a qualified moderator to take it over for me. Someone who knows how to take care of the "sharks " you know the type ?
Or i end up living on my computor.

Secondly , what question have i ever avoided. Maybe you just couldnt understsand the answers ?

And i dont build my products for aestetics ,only for precise function. Even though my " Bullet range " is very much liked by most woman and go into very nice premises. The machine is almost silent and is in full chrome. No plastic to be seen.

And if you judge me for being a Mortician , i believe that shows us more about yourself than me.

For Mark,
Positive and Negative involuntary reflexes are the opposing reactions of Positive and Negative voluntary reflexes. The amplitude has nothing to do with this reaction.
You will not find reference to this on other sites as most companies are still testing the basic negative platforms , trying to get them right. Most are still argueing about amplitude.

I am sorry but i cant give you the 9 part equation i use to reach partial bio-mach. And besides the last 3 branch off as the bio-kenetic feeded back increases. To figures i need to dumb down just so i can start to build a unit.

And yes a home unit should have light enough settings for physio work.

And no , 3d vibration causes shearing on the joints and should be avoided at all costs. Ask any Physio.
BIG MISTAKE BY POWER-PLATE , AGAIN.

And their original advertising ( which i still have ) claims it to have only Lineal vibration. So its not meant to be there.

I am a young physiotherapist who did a powerplate instructing course this year at home in South Africa. I have seen very good results with the clients that I have trained with the machine and feel it has great benefits to offer from both an exercise and rehabilitation aspect. I am very keen to work in the UK next year, and wondering if anyone knows of anywhere in the UK where I may work as a powerplate instructor??
Thanks!

Interesting discussion, I await with interest KG,s direct response to the questions asked of him by Lloyd Shaw both the technical ones and Lloyd Shaws comments about PowerPlates misleading claims regarding endorsements and research. Direct anwers and not personal attacks as per KG's last email. I assume KG is pinked to Power Plates?

This is a new industry and forums like this are great for the uninformed.
Loydd I have read your forum, learned lots. Its a shame that it is locked

It may sound sad , but after 2 years , i have still NEVER recieved an honest answer from anyone involved with Power-Plate.

Also.

A recent study by a New Zealand top sprinter and AIS found the Power-Plate NG dropping 10Hz after being loaded with only 80kg.

Same results i recorded 18 months ago. And Power-plate accused me of tampering with the unit. I wonder if they are going to do same to the institute that did the tests.

I think Lloyd does know a lot about this stuff actually.

Lloyd is both passionate and knowledgeable on this subject.

The fact is so too are those pasty, geniuses that hole themselves up at home and write viruses to annoy users of Microsoft software. And I think it's an analogy that is fitting. Power Plate is Microsoft-esqe in their market domination of this vibration industry....and Lloyd chirps at their heels from a far, far away isle famous for hobbits and whimsy.

If he were to just cool it with this weird lover-scorned Power Plate obsession. He has some good insights...if you overlook his injury risking advocation for dynamic leg moves on the platform.

We dont have dynamic movement in our programs. Unless for special "peak training " for athletes. The only time I have seen this , is when personal trainers have tried changing my programs to fit their limited knowledge. I FIRED THEM.

And our company is far larger in N.Z. than Power-Plate. And no amount of " puffer fish marketing " can replace knowledge and passion in the long term. Trust me when i say Power-Plates days are numbered.

And the "geek" remark.
I design the machines. I build the machines. I train customers everyday, and I train very hard myself.

From a personal and business point of view, why would i ever forgive Power-Plate for what they have done ?

Maybe you could let us all know how you justify it to yourself KG. I suspect you support them on a voluntary basis ?

I will keep it simple ,

Specs - directly attached to PP Ng from other machines.

Awards - directly attached to PP NG from other machines.

Uni Reports - again from machines tested in 2001 , (all metal). Release date of PP Ng , March 2004 ? ( plastic )

Made in Europe claims , when actually made in China ?

Plain lies told to customers , all to get a sale. I challange you to explain any of the above.

But I , or anyone else reading this post , will not hold our breath.

Come on KG ( or should that be cagey )

Please show us you are not all conmen , and give it to us straight.

At least attept to show the public why you do it.

Please note that this discussion is monitored and moderated... all opinions are welcome.

And KG, believe it or not, this entire blog site (with over 1/4 million visitors per month) is managed and run from that "far, far away isle famous for hobbits and whimsy."

And, on a personal note - I still remain unconvinced as to the benefits of vibration training...

Not convinced , is not surprising. Considering all the bull surrounding this industry.

I do believe one thing though , KG is about to demonstrate to us all why you should never trust a WBV salesman.

As he either tries to explain the unexplainable. Or runs away.

I understand moderator. I enjoy the insights from this site. I've not seen a forum as informed and diverse as the one you present and I thank you fro the service you provide us. The description of NZ was one a friend used-a kiwi himself, and I enjoyed.

As far as the vibration thing goes...I don't have a dog in this hunt. I've used the machines and am very cognizant of their ability to be misused.

There is two ways to go should you choose to get involved. You can go to a gym and be bled out slowly over time or get one for your home away from the lines of sweaty types and without the time an petrol expense to get to the studio.

I've used the Power Plate but have'nt an interest in them. I make purchase decisions based on the top 1 or two players in any market segment because it offers me security that they will continue to remain in business AND market share does IMO equate to at least some semblance of credibiity.

As far as the diet/wellness arena, sites like this are necessary to seperate the charlatans form the real deal; which for some reason seemed drawn to this market.

So in keeping with the spirit of this site...I implore everyone to use COMMON SENSE.

L. Ron Hubbard before Scientology was a sci-fi writer. While I would consider reading his books, I'd pass on the religion he founded...just too much of a leap.

Nor would I consider buying a health and wellness product designed and marketed by a Mortician. Do you see the irony there? Maybe its just me. And no Lloyd I've nothing against morticians as yourself....my grandfather was one.

Thankyou for proving my point for me KG.

You did not answer one of my direct questions. NOT ONE.

Instead you sound like a bad marketer , backed into a corner , and holding for dear life onto your " projected figures" and " market share " mentality.

To make sure you fully understand what you have just said.

(1) Honda is better than Bentley just because they sell more ?

(2) No large company can be dishonest ?

You are Power-Plates perfect target demographic.

I can speak personally from experience when i say , never trust someone from Powerplate. I purchaced 3 machines off them for my studio , in cash, they had banked the check !!!! Which i waited for, during which time they told me they had been lost at sea. Not true. Then ,that they had been accidentlly sold to another party , not true. And then they finally tried to swap my metal machines for plastic ones.

I caught them red handed thanks to LLoyd Shaw , who dobbed them in.

I had to get my lawyers to repossess them with an escort to get a product i had paid for months earlier.

Nice eh ?

Could anybody tell me if they have heard about a vibration machine called the NEMES made in holland, and wether or not the claims it makes about their machine being able to detect a persons individual optimum freq needed to train on any vibration machine to achieve a max workout potential are true or just a clever marketing ploy ?

They also claim that anybody using vibration platforms who randomly choose a freq setting are taking a shot gun approach and could be wasting their time and money, is there anybody out there who could confirm or de-bunk this suggestion.

This is slightly complicated , and simple as well.

Yes the Nemes is a good model, and Dr.Bosco did some good research, but i do not like the way they mislead the public as to the ( individual optimum ) correct Hz settings for you.

That is just marketing , and this is why.

We already know that 27hz is the approx correct fq for the best anabolic response in most peoples muscles and bone tissue ( all primates have the same limits ). So hooking you up to a machine they already know the approx answer too proves nothing.
Also those lower settings are an oxymoron , they fall into ISO caution Fq for long term exposure ( anthing below 38hz compresses the lumbar ). So short term physio work , ok. Long term training , not so smart.

Funny they fail to mention that.

But that is not to say that other fq dont work at all. N.A.S.A.s TVIS system is set at 50hz. And they still get good results.

The safe answer lies somewhere in the middle. It is call compromise.

Hi, I'm a total blank page here - just offering up my quaffers.....I just started using a vibration training system here in NZ, (I'm not going to name which as that places me in the firing line) and can honestly say that I haven't felt aches where I've felt them in all the years since I stopped dancing professionally and body sculpting.

I have owned every type of home fitness centre imaginable (years of slaving to keep the "perfect" body to blame for that!!)and have spent countless hours at the local gym. My comment would be this - unless you know exactly what you are doing, be wary of using home equipment as you spend $$ buying the thing, hours figuring out how to use it then take pot luck as to whether you are doing it right = effective or wrong = waste of time + risk of injury. There is also nothing like having to get motivated to use a machine thats in the corner of the bedroom collecting spare undies and t-shirts!!!!!

It is like anything - Vibration training is no miracle cure. You won't lose 30kg overnight, you won't build big muscle and you won't wake up one morning looking like Elle Macpherson!! It takes the 3x 10/15 minutes a week, a good balanced diet and of course a couple of cardio sessions a week to achieve the ultimate results from the system (whichever machine its on!!)

This is where I feel ALL fitness equipment marketers and spokespersons fail. The promotion of the ultimate belief that one machine will do it all, and thats just not true. You don't just stand there and it burn all your imperfections away, you do have to work pretty hard in each session to get anything out of it.

I suppose if you were furnishing a studio with these machines - then yes, you would need to know all about them, which one is best value for $$ and also which can pay itself off in the shortest term. But for the average user / studio goer un-biased advice on value for money at studios and quality of the trainers should be the focal point - not which machine is made in Europe or is plastic. They are all expensive, all have different specs and all be-rate the next machine in line.

Could this forum be returned to an environment where it's about actually using the machines, and which machine is suitable for which application instead of outsmarting each other with snyde remarks and low punches????????? After all this is a great concept, and everyone is welcome to their view...but seriously 4 pages of this snickering?

Jo,
You mean you really don't want to hear how lloyd got wronged by some equipment manufacturer a million more times and how his training as a mortician gives him expertise over all others???

I agree.

As someone who has used the system, can you tell us if you use the straps on them? And do you think it works?

Thanks,

Kat

Your point would be valid Jo , if not for the fact you do have companies out there telling the public their machine does do it all , and they are all equal.

My main problem is the public is not being informed that Vibration Training is evolutionary. That one machine will only get a response for a limited time. And quality does count.

Your comment on price is a classic example , one popular plastic unit is bought off the Chinese for 800Euro , but sold over here for 16k.
A real commercial unit cost 12K + , just to build.

Everbody involved in the industry knows this.

The only reason this information is not given is greed , and has nothing to do with them caring for your results.

I agree that quality is important too, especially if the machine will be used for 12 hours every day, 7 days a week, obviously then you would want a real trooper for your $$. But I guess the franchisees / studio owners need to find a way to claw back the $$ they have expended just to get a machine! Which explains why, engaging in a vibration training system is way off the scale when it comes to cost per session for the end user.

A particular machine (naming no names) is currently on sale on a nz auction site for $12k, there are others for $1. The old adage "you only get what you pay for" screams loud and clear in that situation. But when you are talking the difference between $12k, $9k and $6k obviously other factors are in motion.

The big fish are only really concerned with the top feeders, the Franchisees, the sports facilities, the sports teams etc - not little Joe Bloggs who goes every other day to the studio and pays their premium rate to get the training, get it right and walk away feeling like they may have just achieved something.

I am not doubting anybodys comments on here, trying to disprove them, retaliating or any of those further incriminations. I have a genuine interest in spreading a positive message about a process that may actually be of benefit - in a realm where most machines are in fact no more effective than wrapping yourself in clingfilm and lying in front of a heater for 20 minutes, and where good, sound, honest advice is as rare as hens teeth.

The unfortunate few of us who are a little plump, odd shaped, depressed, self concious, under pressure to look good for work (know about that one!!)have eating disorders or are simply hooked on the 'buzz' are the easiest to target as we generally suffer low self control, low self respect and most of all have no willpower to actually maintain and stick to something. We are procrastinators, addicts or just extremely hopeful that one day - we will find that one miracle cure to make it all go away.

I have yet to encounter any promoter or marketing scheme that addresses those issues and then reacts with an appropriate marketing campaign that contains facts, figures and no b***.

Kat:
On a lighter note, I will add that yes I have used the straps, and I think providing you do have them at the right length, have yourself in the correct position and keep a nice, even steady tension - then yes, they do. As noted previsouly - I have trained for many years, and being perfectly honest I believe if the system is used alongside regular cardio (fast walking the pooch!) and a good, balanced diet you would definitely see improvement in tone, strength and maybe not tonnes of kgs - but your pants will certainly start to fall down!! (personal experience talking!!!)

where can I buy the powerplate machine? make me happy about a contact. thanks .

Lloyd, can you tell me if the Galileo vibration system with the side-alternating platform would be suitable to buy for someone who just wants to train for a standard phsiological workout ie; Muscle strentghening, toning, and flexibility etc, or is it more of a theraputic device?

Also i have heard that tilting type platforms mainly target the lower half of the body and can be harsh on your joints , is any of this true ?

Many Thanks;

ps; ive just read an interesting quote on the galileo web site which states that training on a side-alternating platform such as the galileo gives you a 100% physiological workout unlike training on platforms with just a vertical function!!

Now im very confused , can you help ??

This blog is helpful to alert me to all the issues to take into account while I am deliberating what machine I may want to purchase next year for home use in Sata Monica, California. It seems to be a minefield.

I bicycle for transportation and so does my fiance. He has just been diagnosed with osteoporosis in the spine. Bicycling is not weight bearing. We are both 58 and my own bone density, while still above normal for my age, has plumeted in the last 3 years. I am past menopause, do not take estrogen, had chemotherapy once for breast cancer and now i want to reverse the loss of bone and keep my body fit.

I also want to help my fiance avoid Fosamax and build his bones before he becomes seriously debilitated. I work full time and while I take the stairs and walk for excercise, I need more weight bearing in the least time-consuming manner. So I am interested in a home model at or below $3000.

I have tried the professional BodyVibe at a local doctor's office which he sells for about $3000. It feels pretty good, but I want to try out and research other machines as well. Wave Exercise is in Canada and does not have a machine to try in Southern California. Lloyd left off the "s" at the end of the site for wholebodyvibe. The correct site name is wholebodyvibes.com. I will check their hypergravity machine out since they located not far from where I live.

Is their hypergravity machine better than the bodyvibe?

Would it be wise to encourage my fiance to get a soloflex right away, until we can get a bigger machine at home?
Barbara

My observations, for what they are worth,

KG are you a polictician or a marketer, has got to be one or the other the way you avoid answering any questions directly or even indirectly and instead attack someone personally.

There is so much information/mis-information out there that it is refreshing to see someone like Lloyd Shaw on here sharing his knowledge.

Of course Lloyd has a commercial operation, however not all of the advise he is giving is going to benefit his business especially in terms of reccomending home units.

Lloyd has been upfront about who he is, what he does and that seperates him from all the other marketers on here pushing thier own products no matter what.

Lloyd, you say that not one platform can do everything, what would you reccomend for general Muscle toning, strength, power and body fat % loss. Is this acheivable on one platform?

I bought a TurboSonic because it got rid of nearly all my visible cellulite (the stuff you don't have to pinch the skin to see) after less than two months of using it 10 minutes a day. My legs and arms are also noticeably more fit. Plus I've had more energy and I feel happier.

The sonic vibrations are not audible; it's not sound therapy. But the best part is you can run music or healing sounds through the machine's speakers so that the body vibrations carry the healing waves throughout your body, moving your fluids to these healing sounds. If anyone knows of Imoto's water experiments, you'll understand the incredible potential of this to alter consciousness toward health and balance.

Three out of 4 friends who have tried my machine have had significant results the first time--more energy, less pain, swelling that went away. A female friend tried the highest frequency on full volume and said "Oh my God--it's orgasmic! Who needs a boyfriend?!!" So it'd seem there's at least one drawback: this machine isn't so good for procreation of the species.

To check out the differences in Pivitol VS Lineal go to www.smitechasia.com . They sell both types and have specs on them. With having both in their range you are more likely to get closer to the truth.

I personally find Lineal easier on the joints , and older people find it more comfortable. It also gives a very good workout.
I find the Pivitol salesman tries the old " but it targets your abbs better " pitch ( or the CORE is everything ). They seem to be slightly behind the rest of us who already understand you cant target bodyfat.

I would go for a cheaper Lineal machine until you decide on a pro model. The home Hypergravity is VERY good for the price.

By the way, anyone who lives near West Los Angeles you're welcome to write to me at drnadinew@drnadinewinocur.com and come try out my TurboSonic, as long as you don't have any of the contraindications.