CSIRO Total Wellbeing Diet: Here it Comes

"I was just recently in 7-Eleven and saw a display for this product called Skinny Water, which claims to suppress your appetite just by drinking it before every meal... and I was wondering if anyone has heard of it or tried it before and does it work like they say? I look on google, and found that they have a site, http://www.skinnywater.com and read through some of the information and it seems to be pretty legit. What do you think?"

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Hi

Interested in your comment "The meal plans have an obvious bias toward red meat (due to the close ties with Meat and Livestock Australia)". CSIRO is an independent government research agency. This is a very serious allegation to make which implies significant scientific bias in their research. I would be interested in the basis of your claim.

Regards
Andrew

The last page of the free PDF has the Meat and Livestock logo boldly displayed. To the average consumer this would imply some kind of endorsement. The CSIRO diet advocates a higher proportion of protein - but why should this have to be red meat 4 times per week?

Sounds like a bias to me. This doesn't mean that their research is flawed - but that their menu plans promote red meat.

Hi,
i was interested to read what you had to say about the CSIRO diet, i have been on this diet for 9 weeks and have lost 6 kilos, you have to understand the diet is tailored to an individuals needs. Firstly you calculate your BMR (resting metabolic rate) and then determine how much energy your body requires at rest, then you subtract about 2000KJ from that amount and follow the intake guide as described in the book. THe book does all of the work for you, basically what i'm saying is, this diet works!! you can do absolutely nothing and you'll still loose weight on the diet because energy in is less than energy out, there is alot of food to be consumed daily and you don't feel hungry because of its a high protein diet. You need to understand the though the livestock company has funded the scientific research they could not determine the result, the result (the TWD) speaks for itself. if you prefer you can always eat the quantities of protein in fish and other sources, read the book its all in there!!!

I have started the CSIRO diet, and the amount of red meat does put me off a bit, however I plan to stick with it as I feel better after just 3 days. I find there is heaps of food and I am never hungry and struggle to finish each meal! I guess there is no rule that once a week, I can skip the meat.
I have been involved in publications sponsored by AMLC (I have no ties with them) and funding is all they contributed, no involvement. Coming from a research background myself, I can't imagine the developers of this diet being influenced in any way by AMLC other than being thankful for the funding as in Australia, support for scientific research is scant.

As for the Meat Industry backing, Well C'mon so does the Dairy Industry yet its not a High Dairy Diet. Someone had to fund this research so why not the meat industry? I doubt very much that they were swayed either way buy the sponsors. I must admit though, it does lack a certain section on non meat proteins.... That said 4 weeks on it I have lost 5 kilos and am feeling SO MUCH BETTER that I have in years

i have been on the CSIRO diet for about 3 and a half months now and i have lost 14kg. I now weigh 55 kg and am healthy and in shape for summer. thank you SO much CSIRO

The CSIRO is the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation is Australia. it is based in the nation's capital and is staffed by some of the continent's best scientists. It gets funding from the Commonwealth Government. You can take the word "independent" out of brackets. The CSIRO is one of our finest scientific research institutes and to suggest it is beholden to sectional interests is an insult.
I wonder whether the quote you have taken from the SMH is from an animal liberation group?

i beleive that the CSIRO diet makes alot of sense and I have committed myself to giving it my all. After being on Atkins for eight months before finally giving it in, I can see that the high protein reccommended in this diet makes it easy to stick to (reduction in hunger) but it will be so joyful to eat those 'good' carbs (wholegrains and fruit)
stick to it people, we can do it together!

THE TRUTH BEHIND THE CSIRO TOTAL WELLBEING DIET
The CSIRO Total Wellbeing Diet is based upon a paper written by the book authors (Dr Manny Stokes, Dr Peter Clifton, et al) called "Effect of an energy-restricted, high-protein diet relative to a conventional high-carbohydrate low-fat diet on weight loss, body composition, nutritional status and markers of cardiovascular health in obese women" (2005) American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, vol 81, no 6 pp 1298 - 1306. The abstract (summary) is available here (http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/search?sortspec=relevance&author1=noakes&fulltext=&pubdate_year=2005&volume=&firstpage=) It states quite clearly that research was supported by a Medical Research Grant from Meat and Livestock Australia (it also states this on p199 of the Total Wellbeing book). While this sort of industry funding may seem concerning and one must wonder if there was any effect on the outcome, it appears that the research was legitimate and the results unadulterated (I myself and trying out the diet). However, what is interesting is that the authors of both the book and the previous mentioned study have published another work entitled "Carbohydrate-restricted diets either high in monounsaturated fat or high in protein are equally effective at promoting fat loss and improving blood lipids" (2005) American Journal of Nutrition, Vol 81, No 4 pp 762 - 772, which was partially funded by the National Health and Medical Research Council of Australia (the abstract is available at the above web address). This research, conducted around the same time, says that high-protein and high-monounsaturated fat diets are EQUALLY successful for short term weight loss with compromising ones health (although neither are recommended as permanent diets). The only slight difference was that the patients on the high protein diet felt 'fuller', although this didn't affect their desire to eat. So, in reality, the CSIRO Total Wellbeing book should explain that you can replace carbohydrates with EITHER low far protein OR monounsaturated fat. I think the influence of Meat & Livestock Australia is clear in the emphasis of the book on a higher protein diet, but that it is unlikely the study itself was compromised.

Good interview with one of the authors that addresses some of the issues raised.

MP3 Downloadable.
http://www.abc.net.au/sydney/stories/s1482534.htm

i love this diet it made me really slim and i even was attractive to other women now i have a girlfrined she says i am beautiful because i am soooooooooo slim thanks to the total well-being diet i love you!

Thanks CSIRO for a diet that seems "real" -that is, not too many special ingredients, and one that easily accommodates eating out. Personally I'm pleased to see red meat back as a valued food since among other things it is such a good source of easily digested iron.
I've missed the glass of wine each evening meal, but share the allocation out over the week so that I have a wee drop each night instead of a glassful three times. Sometimes I top up the wine with water and it's not as bad as it sounds. Good eating everyone.

Hi iam just starting this diet i was just wandering
if i dont eat fish what i can sustitute it with ,
chicken moer meat or what or do i have get used to
eating fish

The concerns about red meat relate to research linking red meat to heart disease. Newer research has shown that this does not apply to lean red meat, only to red meat with a lot of fat. The diet includes high levels of protein which is best obtained from animal sources. Vegetable sources of protein do not have the same combinations of amino acids that are required for human nutrition and consequently are less effective. Out of the 21 meals in a week the diet recommends some animal protein sources are included in all cases. Only 4 of these include red meat. This is not a particularly high amount. I don't see any reason to believe there has been any bias behind this research. I began following these general principles about five years ago when I was around 20Kg above my current weight and have remained with in 5Kg of my current weight ever since.

Currently diets high in animal protein sources are growing in popularity. There are a few important things to understand when considering this trend.

Consumption of fatty red meat was and still is regarded as contributing to heart disease. It is now considered that saturated fats in fatty red meat are responsible.

Consumption of lean red meat is no longer generally regarded as being linked to heart disease.

Avoiding heart disease and losing weight are related but separate issues. High protein diets have been consistently shown to aid in losing weight. Whilst it is important to understand the relationship between saturated fat consumption and heart disease this should not confuse the issue of weight loss. Consuming an older high protein diet which happens also to have high levels of saturated fats will increase the risk of heart disease but this does not alter the fact it does nonetheless aid in the process of weight loss. Also it is perfectly possible to combine both principles inorder to lose weight and avoid heart disease.

I am up to week 5 of the diet and am really feeling good,but I was wondering has anyone suffered from a stange taste in the mouth? I can't seem to get rid of it and would appreciate any feed back
Tracey

I have been trying this diet now for 14 weeks and have gone from 90kg to 75kg with a little exercise each day as well, I have tried other diets and always seemed to fail with hunger pangs and sugar cravings. This has to be the best diet I have tried and apart from missing the occasional tipple of wine with dinner I have had no problems! Thankyou CSIRO for a scientific approach to weight loss.

Hi Folks,

This is Supatra from Dubai. Well I have so much of weight loss information regarding the CSIRO Diet.I am quite keen to follow this diet seeing the comments most have you have posted.

Could any of you guide me on how to get started. Will buying a copy of this book actually help me to start!!

Your veiws please.. Most of you guys have lost min 4-8 kgs in such a short time .I plan to loose 10 kgs How long would that take.Advice please!!

Regards
Supatra from Dubai

If you check the CSIRO site http://www.csiro.au/proprietaryDocuments/MLA_diet.pdf#search='csiro%20diet' you will find a 4 week sample plan and info about the diet. It's in PDF format and can be printed.

A BBC news story quotes Nature editorial: "The diet is being promoted as beneficial for everyone, whereas the published research indicates that it is superior to a high-carbohydrate diet only for a sub-population of overweight women with symptoms of metabolic disorder."

BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4568944.stm

For those of you that wish to sample the diet - it is still listed online at the main meal.com.au link is below... it is the first 7 weeks of the program.

http://www.themainmeal.com.au/index.cfm?pid=62

The CSIRO diet is just that 'another diet'! In reality it is just another medium for people to restrict the amount they are eating. Most diets, atkins, south beach, zone and the CSIRO diet have some impact on the people that follow them because they restrict certain food groups which has the desired overall affect of reducing energy intake.

We also must not be fooled that early weight loss on the CSIRO diet is actually fat loss. If any individual decreases significantly the amount of CHO they have in their diet plus increases their exercise, over the first couple of weeks there will be some resultant weight loss because of depletion of muscle glycogen and water.

The high protein diet may result in weight loss but we also need to be mindful of the realtionship between red meat intake and colorectal cancer and the protective effect of wholegrain carbohydrates.

If you are trying to lose weight the best way is surely to:
1. reduce the amount you are eating,
2. increase activity; and
3. make some smarter choices. Remember restricting food groups goes against the 1st dietary guideline of eating a wide variety of foods.

It also must be remembered that there are many countries around the world that base their diets around CHO's. They are not as fat as us because they eat less in general, don't eat so much processed crap and generally are more active.

Andrew - this is hardly "high-protein", and it's been known for years that eating cholesterol does not equal having cholesterol - it is eating trans-fat that makes you have high cholesterol, besides genetics, lack of activity, etc. Where do you find trans-fats? In light margarines, cakes, cookies, chips, not in red meat. Also, keep in mind this diet is NOT low-carb. Your criticism is of Atkins. This diet is about as "low-carb" as The Zone. It is around 45% carbohydrate from WHOLE GRAIN, the same ones you said are not eaten in this diet. There is no "induction" phase with water weight loss, like South Beach or Atkins either, and you said that people would only lose water weight on it. It seems you are criticizing it and lumping it in with Atkins in your mind without even knowing what it is.

Jan

I didn't even mention cholesterol but why we are on that topic, red meat contains saturated fat which also has an impact on cholesterol levels. Not just trans fats as you indicate.

I am lumping it in with Atkins because it just that, another diet. I never said that this diet has no CHO what I said is that the intention is to reduce CHO foods in the diet by adding protein. This often results initially in a reduction of food eaten because of limited choice, resulting in a decrease in energy intake which results in weight loss. The question is...is it sustainable and as you are aware most diets are not!!

I never said the diet had an induction phase. I was just indicating to those people who have said they had lost several kilos in the first few weeks of the diet, that this was more likely to be water and muscle glycogen loss than significant fat loss.

I probably shouldn't have lumped it in with the other diets because it has a better scientific basis but it is just that another diet.

The dietary guidelines haven't changed much in years because all the science points towards those as the best guidance for eating a nutritious, healthy diet.

As for questioning not knowing what it is, I resent that because I do know about the diet and feel like I am very well qualified to comment!

I'm sorry if I misinterpreted you, and I'm not questioning your qualifications for commenting, just whether you were aware of the specifics of this diet (I wasn't myself, until the latest post on it).

The impact of saturated fat and total fat consumption on heart health does exist, although this diet is not particularly high-fat, from what I understand (I haven't read the book either, just stuff online, here and on other sites) - it is something like 25% fat, so just a bit over your low-fat diet, and *under* the typical diet (closer to 35-40% for your average junk food eater). If you are talking Atkins etc. then yes, I do agree with you, that fat would have an impact even if it didn't contain any trans-fat at all - we are talking around 70% of calories from fat on Atkins. It is a TON of fat.

I think that the macronutrient breakdown of this diet is sustainable - it is close to what I've been eating for years. The specifics, like 100g meat for lunch, 200g meat for dinner, etc. - probably not, as they'd bore you. Is it perfect? No, since it is paid for by the meat people it emphasizes red meat above other protein sources, and it doesn't mention 5-6 small meals, and lots of other stuff. But it is an improvement in the right direction, in my point of view. It is not gimmicky like South Beach or food combining, and doesn't promote processed food with its brand name, as far as I know. Like the Sonoma diet, I think if these 2 became the new "hot diets", most people would be better off.

The dietary guidelines are influenced by interest of grain producers, etc. just as much as this diet is, and the new "My Pyramid" would fit into this diet's breakdown, with the reduction in carb it has, and more emphasis on vegetables. So the bottomline is I think everyone has to try and see what is best for themselves in terms of specifics, but follow the science that is undisputed (such as, unprocessed is better than processed, etc.).

Of course there is a larger portion of meat! Its based on high protien food. I love it. Its not affected me having more meat.

Jan I feel your putting your values onto others by criticizing the CSIRO diet. What qualifications do you have to comment on whether it is good or not?
Also have heard some criticizm over the air but with the help of the CSIRO PR it has spoken out about the negatives that are going around.
I think that because its so successful some negative people are thinking that they are doing something that is not right! Its like the old days of good meat, fish, poultry and vegies combined with excersise and enjoying the food that you eat and knowing it is good for you.

Veronica, I think you misinterpreted my post. Although I'm not on this diet and have not read the book, I was actually DEFENDING IT, and saying that I do not think it will negatively impact cholesterol. In fact, on another topic here about this diet, I said that it was remarkably similar to the way I ate and still eat, which caused me to lose over 100lb. I'm not a doctor or have any formal qualifications that you seem to want people commenting here to have(boy, would this blog become less popular!), but no, it doesn't look like there is anything wrong with this diet IMHO.

I have been on the CSIRO diet for five weeks and it is costing me a fortune.

I have lost over seven kilos, so my clothes do not fit any more. I have had to purchase new clothes for work and recreational use.

I am also feeling so much better that I am walking far more than before. My sneakers are wearing out faster than they used to, and that will cost me money as well.

I think I ought to be able to sue those CSIRO people for all the extra expense. ;)

At this rate, I will be back to my ideal weight in a month or so, and will need another change of wardrobe. Not to mention the trauma of reassessing my self image from 'fat' to 'trim'.

Finally, since I am never hungry now, who is going to support those chocolate manufacturers that I previously kept funding?

There ought to be a Royal Commission!

I've been overweight all my life and have kept trying to eat healthy but always seemed to fail. After each 'diet' I usually ended up with more weight than when I started. I gave up on 'diets' and tried to simply eat as healthily as I could.

When the CSIRO book came out I bought it not because it was a diet book, but because it was a *CSIRO* diet book. As an Aussie, I've known of the CSIRO my whole life and I trust the name.

I have not been let down by the book. I'm not someone who can stick to a diet plan rigidly, but the way the book communicates information about what's best to eat, what alternatives are out there if you find it difficult with some things, etc etc, has been very helpful. Above all else it's helped me realised that I shouldn't feel too guilty about eating meat, which is what I had been feeling for the last few years. Further it's helped me to realise the things my diet has been lacking (nuts, beans and veggies, more veggies!). I feel a whole lot better than I have felt with my eating before. In January my doctors weighed me at 180+kg (had to use 2 scales, was most embarrassing), in April I was re-weighed and was down to the 150kg range. I haven't weighed myself since but I *know* I'm still losing. I feel it with every step I take, every morning where I get out of bed and my back isn't killing me.

My thoughts on this book: follow the diet plan if that's your thing, but the real value from reading this book is learning about how to approach eating in a *healthy* manner.

That is a great result Erica. I bet you are really happy. With that is also the great feeling that with this diet, we are in control of our weight. We can decide on a realistic weight target from the information in the book, and we know we can reach it. Need to lose a couple of kilos for that party or big job interview in a couple of weeks? No problem. Want to have that piece of sticky date pudding dessert at the restaurant and be able to repair the 'damage' over the next few days? No problem. Want to go to the school reunion in your size ten while those who were size ten are now sixteens? No problem thanks to CSIRO.

Help me overcome anorexia, if you had it how did you beat it, is it possible to be normal and healthy again and have children if your 16?

Rose, it is possible to overcome it and it is possible to have children. If possible, get some professional help (from a doctor, a free clinic, a local support group). In the meantime, check out www.something-fishy.org It is a very helpful site.

You've taken the first step, which is asking for help. You can do it.

I like the recipes on the CSIRO. Most diets have rather gross recipes one cannot imagine ever eating again after goals are reached, whereas I really think these recipes could be useful forever. I think we all get in a rut with what and how we cook and its nice to be challenged.
And the whole meat thing? Well it certainly feels much healthier than the Atkins (although results aren't as fast). I think the diet has quite a lot of complex carbs and I add heaps of veg so the meat certainly isnt instead of "better" foods. Personally I have trouble with all the dairy foods, which I dont really like. So I think a lot of the meat concerns may be just based on personal likes and dislikes.